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Diving Doc
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« on: August 12, 2006, 01:35:22 PM »

  Occasionally one is fortunate enough to find a wreck that is not completely buried and the artifacts tell   a compelling story. For your enjoyment I pen the following.
 

               
Story of a Southern Bahamas Wreck
                   By Diving Doc, Director of History Hunters.
 
               

The full article is here
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Diving Doc
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2006, 01:41:18 PM »

I must add that this project of ours is still under research and we have no intention of entertaining proposals from investors, under any circumstances, until this is complete and recovery permits have been issued.

Doc
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Solomon
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2006, 04:31:27 PM »

Though I've sailed the seven seas in many types of yacht, the terminolgy you used in that piece, Doc, still taught me something new. For example, though I know the Caribbean quite well - I have family long-established in Jamaica - I had never heard of Tabonuco before, or the term pintle. Good that I'm not to old to learn? Wink

Lovely undersea images. A joy to view them.

Sol
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2006, 10:00:55 PM »

Notes on 18th Century Hull? Protection

Since local ship fabrication privileges were initiated in 1511, the Spaniards witnessed the advantages exhibited by native woods whose resin and sheer resistance prevented hull disintegration experienced in the hands of the ever present Abroma. The broma or teredo worm (Teredo navalis), dug into the unprotected bottoms rendering them useless thus resulting in heavy leaking and unexpected forceful entries.(running the ship ashore)
Ingenuity had found substitutes for this kind of problem.? To protect the ship's planking Juan Ponce de Leon saw in the bark of the endemic Tabonuco tree (Dacroyde excelsa) a possible answer.? After careening the vessel, the sap was mixed with chalk, oil, and tar that was smeared on the surface through hot bath applications. (Spanish reference)
Walter A.? C.? Bonet, Shipwrecks in Puerto Rico's History, 1989, San Juan, Puerto Rico, p. 218
Until the late eighteenth century, the two problems were generally tackled separately.? For protection against the worm, ships on the way to the West Indies or India were sheathed.? A noxious composition, usually a mixture of hair and tar, was put over the underwater hull.? This was covered with light planks, usually 1/4 inch thick on British ships but thicker on French.? It was hoped that the worm would confine itself to the sheathing planks, and not penetrate the tar.
For protection against weed, other anti-fouling compositions were used, and put on top of the sheathing if that had been applied.? In the seventeenth century the most common was a mixture of train oil, rosin, or sulphur.? This gave a white appearance, and so was known in Britain as 'white stuff'.? Around the middle of the century some ships were tallowed as well, though this was probably a way of getting a smooth, frictionless surface, rather than for the protection of the hull.? A cheaper alternative to white stuff was 'black stuff', made from pitch and tar.? Though the work of model makers and marine artists suggests that the white stuff remained prevalent, most British ships of the first half of the eighteenth century were in fact coated with black stuff.? In the 1740's, 'brown stuff' became standard for British ships; it was black stuff mixed with sulphur, and it was said to have the advantages of both compounds.
B.? Lavery, The Line of Battle, 1992, London, p.? 142 (referring to British ships)
The seventeenth century ships that Pepys knew so well had the bottoms coated with tallow or tar mixtures, containing hair, felt or ground glass, over which thin fir planks were? fixed. (British reference)
C.H. Ellis, Ships, 1974, London, p.? 10
Great damage was done to the hull by the teredo worm, which infested the water in warm latitudes, and by the gribble worm in temperate latitudes.  Both worms bore into the hull of the ship.  Protection was given to some extent by sheathing the hull with pine below the water-line and renewing it at a subsequent refit@.
P.  Whitlock, Nautical Terms Under Sail, 1978, New York, p.  02.05


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Sovereign
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2006, 08:45:11 AM »

First, many thanks for that article. Great stuff!

The seventeenth century ships that Pepys knew so well had the bottoms coated with tallow or tar mixtures, containing hair, felt or ground glass, over which thin fir planks were  fixed.

Hair?! Wow, that's quite something. Horse hair I assume. Not mermaids  Roll Eyes
Thanks.
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DeepDiver
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 04:40:43 PM »

Well, I been standing outside and lookin' at you fellers for a while now. Sems like you're on the square so I'll ring in. Don't usually stick me nose into officers affairs. You put up some really first class intel an I'm enjoying the read and what your doing.
Be in touch,
Dave
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Diving Doc
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 08:20:56 PM »

Welcome Aboard Dave,

Glad you decided to join. I'm sure you will find a lot of good history to read along with the rest of us.
Cheers,
Doc
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Sovereign
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2006, 07:21:17 AM »

I'm sure you will find a lot of good history to read along with the rest of us.
There *really* is loads of history to discover here  Grin
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Diving Doc
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 01:05:19 PM »

And.......................History is a Treasure!
Cheers,
Doc

Judging from the number of persons who have viewed this story in such a short while, I'm going to put up the scale drawing of the wreck site. It was scanned on graph paper so this may take some doing. I'll try and put it up tomorrow.
Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2006, 07:48:27 PM »

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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2006, 08:09:39 PM »

Thank you Admin. I tried repeatedly but the scanned document was so large that my wireless transmission continually timed out. Admin was kind enough to pick up the dispatch so I could continue with this thread.

As may be seen from the location of the artifacts pictured in the body of the story the basis of my assumption as to the nature of this loss. My feeling is, that judging from the location of the broken Sheet Anchor in close proximity with the catting hook, or block if you perfer, the anchor caught and broke as the crew realized their danger and flung their biggest anchor into the sea. In a more or less straight line from this broken anchor are the Pintles where the rudder broke free from the ship on her initial impact with the reef. No longer held by the anchor and with her stern in the reef the vessel swung sideways to the starboard and lay there held by wind and wave. The Gudgeons were attached to the stern and mark her final resting place when the ship died. The Port and Starboard Bower anchors are not set, as is obvious from their rings, and lay where they fell. Now as to the cannon being on the Port side. I am assuming that the hurricane, for such I imagine it was, in passing backed the wind and threw the ship over from the Starboard side, spilling the cannon upside down and the ballast. So the end result is the picture told by the position of the artifacts observed. The position of the cannon trunnions say they have been capsized. Of course it always possible that there is some other conclusion for the position of the artifacts and I would welcome any input to my explanation as there is no end to learning.
Cheers,
Doc
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Solomon
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2006, 10:45:43 PM »

Very useful to see that detailed data. I don't know the waters she foundered in. Is it possible that the vessel may have grounded and the anchors used to try and haul the ship off?

Sol
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2006, 11:14:20 PM »

Solomon,
I'm afraid grounded wouldn't be the proper description. The reef behind is above water at low tide and awash at high tide. It shallows in front of the reef at an alarming rate. In those days the "bottomsounder' was the ship's boy with his hand on a lead line let out for two hundred feet, and at the bottom an 18# sounding lead. If the line jerked the boy was to give the alarm. The bottom in this location goes from over 200 feet to less than 20 in a little more than 180 feet. I fear the ship was against the reef and smashed in spite of the frenzied efforts of the crew but it is obvious they tried. Rudderless, grinding against the reef, with the stern smashed (I presume) and miles from land there was little hope of refloating the ship if weather had permitted. None of the other anchors were set and the ten foot long kedge anchor was found a mile and a quarter from the site along with one small caliber cannon. I presume that wreckage carried these artifact down the reef in high winds. If I can find the pictures of these artifacts I will post as well.

Doc
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Solomon
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2006, 11:37:44 PM »

Ha! It helps to know what was where. Half a century ago I was lying on a deck swinging the lead and calling out the depth to my father. Since then, I've been aground more times than...  Wink

Well, in those circumstances, dropping those anchors would not have offered any hope. I don't know that I would have bothered, if I'd been in the same situation. Once, when I knew I couldn't stop an outrigger hitting a reef in the South Pacific - the current was too strong - I got out, stood on the reef and manhandled the boat around. That was a very near thing.

Sol
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2006, 12:48:57 AM »

From accounts I have read of occurrences like these, all hands would be called to wear ship, if there was room to maneuver, or cut loose the Sheet anchor on a short rode. As is evidenced by the catting block, it was a very short rode indeed but the anchor broke.
I found a large sounding lead and I will post a picture of same. Wonder what they did too the cabin boy? Then again, there may have been no survivors.

Doc
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2006, 04:45:06 AM »

Doc, you said maybe there were no survivors of the wreck. Am I correct that if there had been survivors and they made it to a location where they could report the wreck, and salvors were sent out, that they would have salvaged as many cannons and anchors as they could since the water is so shallow?  Or would they only have concerned themselves with cargo and valuables?
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2006, 02:17:16 AM »

In the New World the cannon and anchor were worth their weight in gold and a whole lot easier to recover than the scattered treasure using Indian divers. I imagine the starboard side of the ship was visible at low water for a very long time after the disaster. Seems almost certain, even if they went for the treasure first, they still would have salvaged the anchors and cannon, if anyone knew where it was.

French cartographers wrote in the 1750's of ship wrecks they had sighted years before as still being visible. Apparently this location was lost if there were survivors.

Doc
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2006, 08:12:46 PM »

An interesting picture of the protective bronze hawse. This shipboard item was the fairlead for the anchor line and prevented chaffing the rode in two. Very useful, I would say. This was found and left in the area of the Port Bower anchor.
Doc Wink


* Hawse_hole_bronze.jpg (67.3 KB, 528x427 - viewed 232 times.)
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moneypenny
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2006, 02:12:36 AM »

Doc,  isn't it amazing that something from over 300 yrs. ago can lie there and not degrade at all since it is not near a more noble metal, and thus doesn't degrade on the sea bottom?  Looks like it was just put there a few years ago, huh?   
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2006, 02:28:28 AM »

Moneypenny,
It appears that the quality of the alloy of this casting was very good indeed although it does show some corrosion from electrolysis.
Regards,
Doc
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Solomon
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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2006, 02:45:01 AM »

This reminded me of a story regarding corrosion:
Iron pillar withstands corrosion for 1,600 years

Solomon
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2006, 02:58:42 AM »

What an amazing story Solomon! You are just so full of wonderful true tales.

I digress,
I answered Moneypenny much too quickly. The Spanish, since they usually used lead plating on the hulls of their ships, had to use bronze gudgeons and pintles or suffer the misfortune of having their rudders fall off because the lead created a battery with the sea and destroyed iron fittings. The light corrosion on the bronze fitting pictured would suggest the interaction with a nobler metal, silver perhaps. Time will tell.
Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2006, 08:16:45 PM »

This picture illustrates the sheathing with the antifouling between the hull. Pretty rotten old ship she was. The sheathing looks almost new. I carefully recovered the hull with sand after taking the picture. Note too the line of old tar caulking standing proud. The entire inside of the hull had been tarred. The Spanish had a huge pitch lake in Trinidad.
Doc


* Sheathing and antifouling detail.jpg (80.19 KB, 640x480 - viewed 232 times.)
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2006, 02:26:48 PM »

Going back one post to the info on the metal of the hawse pipe, Doc, you stated:
 "The light corrosion on the bronze fitting pictured would suggest the interaction with a nobler metal, silver perhaps."   
Are you saying that the fact that the bronze is corroded at all is because of being near a nobler metal? Does that mean that if it wasn't near a nobler metal, it would have remained in as good a condition as it was before sinking?
   And yeah, I bet you hope that nobler metal is silver!  Cheesy
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2006, 05:46:03 PM »

I recall a bronze cannon recently recovered in the UK by NAS. The part that was exposed to the surf was polished away to fine finish but the part that was buried retained the decorations. Moneypenny, it all depends on the correctness of the alloy. Sometimes old bronze cannon were recast and sometimes they used Church Bells. In cases like these there were a lot of impurities and if left in the sea a lot of corrosion would occur.
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2006, 06:06:26 AM »

What could be more exciting than looking down and seeing this when all you were looking for was lobsters?
Cheers,
Doc


* View from the surface.jpg (51.77 KB, 472x640 - viewed 378 times.)
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2006, 08:50:46 PM »

I have already mentioned the use of thin lead sheeting by the Spanish on their vessels in the New World. Let me give you an example. This is a piece of lead sheeting formed to cover a 90 degree corner. Since I found this in close proximity to the rudder gudgeons I assume that it might have covered it. My hand gives a size comparison and I do have large hands.
Doc


* Rudder sheathing.jpg (101.49 KB, 640x480 - viewed 112 times.)

* Rudder lead with hand.jpg (81.95 KB, 640x480 - viewed 94 times.)
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2006, 09:54:43 AM »

Doc, I can see that using lead had some simple advantages, in that it was maleable and so on, but don't yachts use lead ingots on the hull, as anodes, precisely because they corrode?
Thanks!
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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2006, 02:17:42 PM »

They sure do but they have something that the Spanish never had, an electrical system needing grounding. The lead sheeting worked well enough if applied when the vessel was new but in this case it is obvious that the vessel was worm eaten prior to the anti-fouling and application of cedar (?) sheathing and then the lead. There were pieces of lead sheeting everywhere in the vicinity. As long as the Spanish used bronze ftg.s it worked well. The accounts of Spanish ships losing their rudders are numerous, the why of not using iron ftg.s on a lead plated vessel.
Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2006, 04:33:45 PM »

Excuse me gentlemen, but I must insert my 2 cents here. As a sailor, I am fairly familiar with the chart of metal activity, and must say that it is ZINC, not lead that is used as an anode under boats to be used up.  Lead is actually a bit higher on the chart right next to copper, and it is above iron, so is less reactive than any of those 3.  In fact, many sailboats have lead keels, and we wouldn't want them being constantly eaten by electrolysis.   Roll Eyes   Please forgive the interruption.  Wink
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2006, 04:38:54 PM »

Moneypenny,
Too smart by half, don't know how I let that slip by,
but of course you are completely correct as usual.
Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2006, 05:26:50 PM »

In my explorations near the port bows I came upon a sounding lead with about six inches sticking above the sand. From the hole in the bottom I guessed what it was. Being totally out of film I removed it after carefully marking the spot. After I took the picture I returned it to the exact location. It was not in proximity to anything I could see but note the electrolysis on the buried part of the lead.
That old buoyancy compensator is 18 years plus but it still works fine.
Cheers,
Doc


* Sounding Lead.jpg (106.42 KB, 640x396 - viewed 93 times.)
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« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2006, 11:51:18 PM »

Here is an interesting shot of the starboard bower anchor. It's immediately obvious that this anchor wasn't set. The shaft of this and the other bower anchor measured 15 feet. Just below the ring on the shaft you can see the step where the stock was affixed.
Doc


* anchor ring with meter stick.jpg (110.45 KB, 640x480 - viewed 95 times.)
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2006, 02:03:11 AM »

Doc, very cool find, I am happy for you those calm days are what make those photos worth showing off, how deep are the cannon 6-12 feet? Would you consider a site in 10 feet of water worth looking at from a financial gain or just historical, looking at wrecks I cannot beleive that the shallow ones were picked clean in fact sometime may have been harder to work in days gone due to breakin into the hull while being pounded by surf, deeper water is more forgiving and usually not as rough? Correct?
Nice post good luck on it,
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« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2006, 02:29:19 AM »

Cannon are in 15 feet of water and I certainly would have expected them and the anchors to have been salvaged if there were survivors. This wreck is only diveable at rare seasonal intervals as it is in a very high energy zone. The water on a normal day is running 6-7 feet over the wreck and then smashing over the exposed reef behind. It is so far from land I doubt anyone could have survived if a hurricane was blowing.
Of course you're right, the deeper wrecks are much easier to work.
Really enjoying your artifacts 99.
Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2006, 02:16:23 AM »

reminds me of a sounding weight I found outside my office/workshop today
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« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2006, 07:14:36 PM »

Unless they were melted down to musket balls or dive weights, they do make good door stops, don't they?
Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2006, 09:49:11 PM »

Very intriguing story Doc....So, this is what you do? I am very impressed!
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« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2006, 09:51:50 PM »

And I thought you were just a bored old man.....hahaha....This is what you research...even if you had of said so I probably wouldn't have believed you...I am very very impressed. EXCELLANT DOC!
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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2006, 08:08:13 AM »

Here is another example of lead sheeting. There were masses of this in proximity to the wreck. This piece looks like it was scrubbed off when the hull worked against the coral. There were also quarter round pieces of some length that I presume were used for guttering where the decks joined the bulwarks.

Doc


* Lead sheeting.jpg (78.63 KB, 640x480 - viewed 19 times.)
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« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2006, 10:28:14 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2JNFx9Mc_2g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/2JNFx9Mc_2g</a>
Here is an edited and smaller version of Diving Doc's great video.
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« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2007, 07:56:33 PM »

Great story,
having a few years experience diving on shipwrecks in the Bahamas, I would like to add my humble opinion.
1) the site looks as if it was buried under sand during a good part of the time since the wrecking. In fact the sand must have receded quite recently, probably due to a hurricane. This may have happened several times over the centuries.
2) There is a good chance that the small anchor and cannon a mile away, belong to another shipwreck.
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« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2007, 09:14:12 PM »

Well the truth of the matter is something like this. When I first found the wreck it wasn't covered at all. There were masses of iron rigging laying all about. That was right after a hurricane had passed thru. The wreck is fairly buried now. As for the little anchor and cannon; the cannon match and I have swum every inch of the reef, quite a few miles, looking at other wrecks. The small caliber cannon pile (five) I found west of the main wreck also match the cannon and small anchor. I think that the only feasibile answer is that a piece of the vessel broke off carrying the anchor and cannon to that location. The anchor isn't set as you can see. I believe that the five cannon I found were carried by wreckage as well, perhaps a large piece of the deck and hull, to their resting place in the reef.

Cheers,
Doc
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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2007, 06:56:58 PM »

Bahama shipwrecks
There are not many places in the world where there are thousands of shipwrecks in shallow, clear and warm water like in the Bahamas. However, considering the  thousands of shipwrecks, there is relatively not much historic or archival information available. Newspaper records in the Nassau archives go back to 1789. Little more than folklore and legends is known about one of the most important occupations of the people living in the Bahamas, �The Wrecking� before that date.

Where could one search for information? Probably there are vast resources available in the UK. The Public Record Office might be such a place. I have not had a chance to go there and search.
Yes, I have a listing of thousands of shipwrecks that happened in the Bahamas. But what is a listing? I would like to know the full story of each shipwreck.
How did the shipwreck happen?
Why did it happen?
Was it a mistake of navigation?
Or was it one of the feared �Northers�, the fierce winter storms that ply the region?
Was it an unexpected hurricane?
What happened to the crew and passengers?
Did anybody survive the disaster?
There are so many questions. Each one of these thousands of shipwrecks has its own story.
And then come the stories of the salvage.
The story of the wreckers. These were the hardy seamen from the Bahamas who were always the first at the shipwreck.
They were organized and efficient in that purpose.
Using small fast sloops with shallow draft, they plied the tricky waters from north to south throughout the year, searching for stranded vessels.
Many times they saved crew and passengers and a good part of the cargo before it was spoiled by the sea.
After the initial emergency salvage, they removed everything of value. Ropes, sails and tackle, went next. Then they started to dismantle the rest of the ship.
When nothing more could be removed, they burned the rest to the waterline, to recover the fasteners.
The wrecking was a dangerous job. It had to be done immediately, otherwise the remains of the shipwreck would be scattered by the waves and swallowed by the sand.
Once, on the remains of a shipwreck, I found the wreckers tools, large crow-bars, still wedged between the timbers where the wreckers had pried to get a the silver.
How do I know they were trying to get the silver? Well, they left some behind, that's why. I wondered why they had obviously left in a hurry, leaving treasure and tools behind.
A few days later I found out why. The shipwreck is located between the reefs. The coral comes to within 5 feet of the surface at low tide. To get to the wreck, one has to  �eyeball� the way between the coral heads until reaching the site of the shipwreck that is 25 feet deep. With the sun behind and the crystal clear water this is not difficult.
One afternoon, it was late in the season, we were surprised by a �Norther� one of the first winter storms coming out of the north west. The boat was tied to a 2 ton cannon. 
By the time we had the divers on board and some of the gear retrieved, the water was white. The one and one halve inch diameter nylon rope that was tied to the cannon broke and we drifted away towards the reefs. The rain came down in sheets. No visibility. I tried to remember the the winding path between the coral heads on the way in and retrace the route.
We were very lucky and got out of the shallows scared, but unharmed.
I still wonder if the same thing had happened to the wreckers 180 years ago. Did they survive? Or were they shredded by the sharp coral reefs? Is this why they never came back to the shipwreck to finish their job?
This shipwreck told me a tiny part of its story. I would like to know the rest, the whole of the story?
Yes I would like to know every story of every one of the thousands of shipwrecks in the Bahamas.
I would like to know the stories of the wreckers too, and I would like to connect the stories of the wreckers to their great grand children who still live in the Bahamas. 
Bahamawrecker
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