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History's Hinge - 'Ain Jalut

[Wopper]

Howdy Lubby,
 
I have to agree with you about narrowing the focus in time and space to particular mission establishments within a span of time between (1600-1760s).  However I am at odds with what you stated in the following:

These mission complexes and their economies were at the mercy of mining boom and bust cycles.

From what I have read the missions on the main land were pretty well subsidized by the King of Spain, and any shortfalls were attended to by the Jesuit Procuraduria in Mexico City.  As for the missions on the Baja, where the King fell short, the Pious fund and the Procuraduria didn�t.  If all else failed, the missions that were in immediate need, could always depend on sister missions to come to their aid.  There appears to have been no shortage of funds for the building, or even rebuilding of missions.  In fact, several of the missions on the northern frontier of Sonora had to be built two or three times, e.g. Guevavi.  (See The Spanish Missions of the Santa Cruz Valley by the Reverend Victor R. Stoner Thesis University of Arizona 1937.)  What is even more interesting is the fact that there are no major Spanish mining camps or towns located in the general vicinity of these missions!  The Tubac Presidio wasn�t established until after the Pima revolt of 1751, at which time Guevavi was sacked and destroyed. (See The Pima Uprising, 1751-1752 : a study in Spain�s Indian policy by Russell Charles Ewing, Dissertation University of California. 1934) and http://www.nps.gov/archive/tuma/Guevavi.html
 
Then you are also at odds with the National Park Service and Mr. Don Garate, Chief of Interpretation at the Tumacacori Mission. where he claims the following: �So, what was Arizona? Before answering that question, it might be appropriate to first say what it was not,because of the fictitious claims that have been made for it (or its imaginary namesake). First, it was not a real de minas, or "royal mining camp." Nor was it a "mining district." Nowhere is that claim made for it in any primary document, including the so-called "Prudhom Map." It was not a "rancher�a of Indians" or a "valley named by the Indians from which the Spaniards dropped the 'c.'" Again, there is no such claim made for it in any of the primary documentation. It was not an "arid zone" so named by the Spanish as �rida zona. It always was and still is one of the wettest places in Sonora. It was not a shipping point for vast amounts of silver being mined in the mountains of Baboquivuri. Nor was it ever a densely populated area with a population of "possibly 10,000 inhabitants" as one 20th century source would have us believe. In fact, it is doubtful that the population of Arizona, proper, ever reached more than 25 people. And, the entire region, including Saric, Tucubavia, Busani, Aquimuri, Arizona, and Arivaca likely never reached over a few hundred inhabitants - men women and children - in its greatest heyday.� 
http://www.nps.gov/tuma/historyculture/upload/Arizonac%20Article.pdf
According to this account there never would have been enough people throughout the whole area at any one time, to have had any effect one way or the other on the mission system.
 
You will also find yourself at odds with the Center for Desert Archaeology where they claim the following: �Historically, one of the most important economic activities in the proposed Santa Cruz Valley National Heritage Area was mining of precious metals. Gold and silver mining began with the arrival of the first Spanish colonists during the late seventeenth century. However, historians have concluded that the legends of lost mines and treasures of early missionaries are nineteenth-century fabrications, and that mining was not of major importance on this part of the Spanish and Mexican frontiers.�  The historians they are quoting, happen to be the one and only Charles W. Polzer S.J.!
http://www.centerfordesertarchaeology.org/SCNHA/ch04_i.pdf
 
That�s a heck of a statement to make, �mining was not of major importance on this part of the Spanish and Mexican frontiers.�  But two paragraphs later they seem to contradict themselves with this, �The search for precious metals was one of the drives behind the northward expansion of the frontier of New Spain, including the Santa Cruz Valley.�  Then they go on to say this, �Contrary to legends that have circulated since the mid-nineteenth century, the earliest missionaries who worked in the Santa Cruz Valley between the 1690s and the 1760s probably did not do any mining in this region or elsewhere in New Spain, because they were forbidden by their Jesuit order.�  Well there you have it straight from accredited archaeologists, this whole topic must be a waste of time.  Or maybe, just maybe, they have a hidden agenda, such as the formation of the proposed Santa Cruz Valley National Heritage Area?  No that couldn�t be, shame on me for suggesting such a thing.  I�m sure that the National Park Service and the Center for Desert Archaeology wouldn�t engage in rewriting history for something such as that.  I forgot to mention that the Tumacacori Mission was rededicated last year as a "Kino Mission," and is now part of the Kino Mission tour.  It is now being presented to the general public as an original Jesuit mission site established by Father Kino, even though the Jesuits had nothing to do with it. The present Tumacacori Mission, was built in the 1800's by the Franciscan's!  Furthermore, I made a special trip to Tumacacori Mission last year, and they had Park Service employees dressed up as Kino and Anza talking to large groups of visitors in order to educate them.  Or should I say "reeducate them."  Some of the main points they were emphasizing was all the good the Jesuits did for the Indians, and how much the Jesuits were against slavery?  That is an outright untruth!  Please see IHS333's post "Reply #58" within this topic.  It appears that tour dollars are worth more than factual history.

Although, the Coronado National Forest, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture seem to be at odds with them about the mining issue.


 
Sincerely,
 
Wopper
 
 

[Tayopa]

Hola  w-opper:   I noticed that you have picked a thoroughly apropo signature. congratulstion on having mastered basic self analysis correctly.  We agee on something after all. 

Till Eulenspiegel    alias     Don Jose de La Mancha   :>D

[IHS333]

Ola Senor Wopper, greetings:

Your most recent writing disturbs me somewhat.  It is disturbing to learn that some actors, wannabe "Jesuits", were dispensing fraudulent history at the Tumacacori National Monument.  I must surmise that the fraudulent historical information probably was approved by those in charge, perhaps the National Park Service officer.  Personally, as a dedicated historical analyst, the absolute truth of all facts is what I seek to find.  If what you say is true, then I would have to take that as a serious charge against the organizers of the fraudlent act, put on at Tumacacori.

I believe that I have demonstrated and document in my short article that slavery indeed did exist in New Spain, and that the Jesuits were the largest organized body of slave holders in New Spain, and in North America (United States).  Not to forget mentioning Brazil and Argentina.

It would seem that Mr. Donald Garate, at the Tumacacori National Monument needs to undertake a serious study of the issue of slavery, vis-a-vis the Jesuits.  Saying that Mr. Garate and his wannabe Jesuit actors have no credibility on the issue of Jesuit slave holding, a rhetorical question arises as to where ELSE does his administration have credibility problems?

Senor Wopper, your latest contribution has prompted me to consider writing something that may very well interest you, and perhaps other members of the HH.

Very Respectfully,
IHS333

[Wopper]

Howdy History Hunters,

Here is some more information dealing with the historical complaints about the Jesuits.  This book titled "The Provincial Letters" is about Blaise Pascal and his correspondence with the Jesuits that spurred an investigation, which resulted in the expulsion of the Jesuits from France, Canada, and all of its dependencies.

Sincerely,

Wopper

[Jesus of Lubeck]

Hello Wopper, HH Members, and Guests,

Thank you for your comments Wopper, it is always possible that I have overstated the case in favor of readability, something all writers wrestling with historical narrative must face.  Nevertheless, the boom and bust cycles of the Sonora and Pimeria mining districts left a deep social imprint on the population and history of the region. It remains a question of degree the extent to which the Sonora and Pimeria Jesuit mission complexes (and later Franciscan) were dependent upon the local mining economy.  However, any real surpluses such establishments enjoyed depended largely on the robustness of the mining economy.  Again, primary sources should be our guide, and I know you are in agreement with me on this point.

In post 27 we are fortunate to have Father Pfefferkorn�s voice to rely upon:

Quoted from post 27 supra:

Of interest among the facts that Pfefferkorn reports is that the King of Spain subsidized each of the Jesuit missionaries in Sonora directly from the treasury of New Spain and this amounted to about 300 pesos per annum for each Jesuit in the Sonoran mission stations.  This stipend was not gravy, Pfefferkorn reports that much of this sum was expended in freight charges for materials and goods sent from Mexico City to Sonora (6 pesos for every 25lbs carried along this route).  Thus the economic productivity of each Sonora mission was a crucial responsibility.

Pfeffkorn also reports that much of the missionary�s income was spent on church decorations, white wax candles (Sonoran wax blackened church decorations), and wine.  Sonora could not produce any quantity of ecclesiastical wine (this was a huge financial drain on these Catholic missions).  Because of these expenses and the shortfall arising from the Imperial Spanish subsidy, Pfefferkorn reports that the Sonoran missions placed a major importance on trade with the Sonoran mining settlements.  Pfefferkorn was very sensitive to the involvement of the Jesuit order in this trade and his writings on the subject contain this entry on trade with the mining settlements:

Primary Source Quote:

If one wishes to describe as trade the fact that we took the surplus of our field produce and animals to the Sonora dwellings of the Spanish miners, and sent to the City of Mexico the gold and silver received to buy goods needed by us and the Indians, I must admit that we engaged in the Sonora trade.  I regret only that because of the exceedingly high prices of all goods, all the profits of this trade were gained by the Mexican merchants, and ultimately the Spanish merchants.  Had this trade not been so very disadvantageous to us, we would have been able to procure for missionaries and for Indians many comforts which were done without [translated by Theodore E. Treutlein]

With respect to low population in Sonora and the Pimeria reported by some secondary sources, this is a very interesting historical question, we should perhaps understand such statements pertaining to low population to be relative and also indicate a low permanent population in a settled area.  Vagabundos (drifters in our cowboy lexicon) comprised a significant and usually uncounted segment of the Sonoran and Pimeria Altan population during the 16th and 17th centuries.  These drifters were often a mixed class of Creoles, Mestizos, and Europeans who migrated from mining camp to mining camp following the strikes.  Thus, populations could and did fluctuate dramatically within relatively short spans of time.  For example, there exist very good primary source records for the area served by the originally Jesuit mission la Pur�sima Concepci�n de Caborca during the Franciscan period.  During this short and intense period of mining wealth, the mission chapel at Caborca underwent a major renovation as a result of increased revenues derived in part from tapping the mining camp market.

Here are some photographs circa 1917 of the Caborca mission in the aftermath of the flood damage the edifice sustained in that year.  The 18th century structural elements of the architecture are partly visible in these photos.  It remains to be determined how much of this structure dates to the Jesuit period; however, the mission in its current form (now repaired) reflects significant post-Jesuit improvements.





The mining camp at Cieneguilla, surrounding a mine discovered 12 Spanish leagues south of the Altar presidio in 1771, had its first census in 1773.  This census records 786 non-natives. Approximately 100 of this class were without any permanent residence and were described as vagabundos or transients.  In 1773 working the mines was a substantial labor force of natives (largely Yaquis) amounting to 1,500 individuals.
[primary source: Ms. Pedro Tueros, la Cieneguilla, December 25th 1773, Archivo General de la Nacion, Provincias Internas 247]

Gold and silver production from the Cieneguilla mine declined quickly. A census in 1778 records only 775 people total.  Importantly, ecclesiastical records have a tendency to record permanent members of a community.

[for a secondary source that surveys and cites primary sources related to the techniques and population fluctuations of La Cieneguilla mine during the colonial era see: 

Ignacio del Rio, Pretexto De Los Placeres y El Real De La Cienegulla, Sonora, from Simposio de Historia de Sonora: Memoria (Hermosillo, 1981), pp. 162-165 (this work is in Spanish)]

It is entirely possible that a wide range of views regarding the size of the colonial era population in Sonora and the Pimeria Alta exists among various groups of scholars and secondary sources (of which we may include the U.S. Park Service).  Again, the viewpoint espoused by a scholar should reflect the type and quality of the primary sources he or she consults.

Secondary Source:

Vagabundaje and Settlement Patterns in Colonial Northern Sonora
Peter Stern, Robert Jackson
The Americas, Vol. 44, No. 4 (Apr., 1988), pp. 461-481)

Very Best Regards (and thank you for the assistance with the Galician matter),

Lubby

[Wopper]

Howdy History Hunters,
 
I want to thank you Lubby for your excellent reply, it shows that somebody was paying attention.  You bring up a good subject with the case of �historical narrative
readability,� it was the exact response I was hopping for.  The same must be applied to Pfefferkorn�s report, as being used for �Primary Source Quote� material.  One must take
into consideration the fact that Phefferkorn, Och, and Baegert, wrote their reports after their expulsion from New Spain.  I have read all three reports, and all three are very defensive of the accusations that were made against the Society of Jesus which led to their expulsion.  I might add that Baegert's report about the Baja is extremely dismal, and downright discouraging.  It would appear that these Jesuits could have motive for being bias, especially when it comes to mining, trade, and financial affairs.  You quoted Pfefferkorn with the following:

�the King of Spain subsidized each of the Jesuit missionaries in Sonora directly from the treasury of New Spain and this amounted to about 300 pesos per annum for each Jesuit in the Sonoran mission stations.�

I believe �subsidized� is the optimum word in that quote, it implies there was other monies that he received per annum.  It is very curious that Pfefferkorn is careful not to state just how much money he did receive overall per annum.  If I am correct, Pfefferkorn is referring to the money he received for his personal expenses, and this money had nothing to do with monies received for mission expenses.

Some of the best primary source material to quote is still waiting to be discovered in the archives, and this 24 page letter will be part of the treasure of information that I will retrieve on my next visit.

Title EL REY DE ESPANA TO VIRREY DE NUEVA ESPANA. INFORMES AL VIRREY DE LA NUEVA ESPANA, PARA QUE DE LAS ORDENES COMBENIENTES AFIN QUE A LOS RELIGIOSOS DE LAS MISIONES DE LA COMPANIA DE JESUS EN AQUELLAS REINAS, SELES SATISFAGA LUEGO LO QUE SELES DEVIERE POR RAZON DE LAS LIMOSNAS QUE LES ESTAN CONSIGNADOS, Y PREVINIENDOLE LO QUE SE DEVERE OBSERVACIONES EN ADELANTE. 

Date 00-00-1670 00-00-1718 

Documentation MADRID. 1670-1718. 24P. LETTER. ORIGINAL. SIGNED. 

Summary SERIES OF CEDULAS CONCERNING ROYAL FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF JESUIT MISSIONARIES, ESPECIALLY ON NORTHWEST FRONTIER.

Although the dates given in this summary predate Pfefferkorn�s time, this should still prove to be interesting.

Lubby, I also want to thank you for your primary and secondary source material dealing with the question of population in Colonial Northern Sonora.  I found the subject of
"Vagabundos" intriguing, and I'm in total agreement with you in the following quote:

" It is entirely possible that a wide range of views regarding the size of the colonial era population in Sonora and the Pimeria Alta exists among various groups of scholars and secondary sources (of which we may include the U.S. Park Service).  Again, the viewpoint espoused by a scholar should reflect the type and quality of the primary sources he or she consults."

Sincerely,

Wopper

[IHS333]

Ola, Respected H.H. members, greetings:

Part One of Two.

Regarding the application of primary source material, offered for your consideration is the following information derived from a little known, official U. S. government report to Congress.  Because of the length of the subject matter, material derived from the U.S. Surveyor General�s report, dated November 5, 1906, is divided into two parts.

The title of the Surveyor General�s report reads as follows.

Quote   Report of Frank S. Ingalls, U. S. Surveyor General of the Territory of Arizona.  As to the Known Character of the Lands within the Baca Float No. 3, at the Time of its Location June 17, 1863.   Unquote

The first inside page of the report is headlined with the Surveyor General�s location and date, and the text reads in part, as follows:

Quote   Office of U. S. Surveyor General, Phoenix, Arizona, Nov. 5th, 1906.

Referring again to your letter �E�, dated July 21st, 1905, detailing me as an examiner of surveys to investigate and determine the character of the lands to be embraced within the boundaries of the Baca Float No. 3, as required by the Act of Congress of June 21st, 1860, (12 Stats., 71), and in conformity with departmental decision of March 3, 1901, (30 L. D., 497�504), I have to report as follows, -

On June 17, 1905, I entered into a contract on behalf of the United States, designated as No. 136, with Philip Contzen, Deputy Surveyor, providing for the survey of the exterior boundaries and accessory lines of the Baca Float No. 3, having previously given notice of the proposed survey in investigation for a period of sixty days in one newspaper of general circulation in the vicinity of the land, and in one newspaper of general circulation throughout Arizona, and advised by registered mail all parties shown by the records of this office to be interested.

On Oct. 24th I was informed by Deputy Contzen that he had reached Tubac and his survey of the exterior boundaries of the Grant was progressing to such an extent that I could determine upon the ground, during the progress of the survey, the lands to be embraced within said Float, as per the agreement of Contract No. 136 and special instructions issued thereunder.

On the evening of Oct. 31st, 1905, I left Phoenix for Nogales, Arizona, the county seat of Santa Cruz county, where it was my intention to examine the records of mines of said county before proceeding to the lands to be surveyed, and take the testimony of several parties resident thereof, whom I knew were old settlers in southern Arizona, and conversant with the character of the lands (prior to June, 1863) of the southern slope of the Santa Rita range of mountains in the vicinity of Salero and Salero Hill, Deputy Contzen having previously informed me that, from reconnaissance surveys, the North boundary of the Float would be located about 1 � � miles North of the summit of Salero Hill, about 1 mile North of the Hacienda de Salero.   Unquote

It needs to be understood that certain individuals fraudulently claimed a very large area of land around the former mission sites of Guevavi, and Tumacacori, approximately 50 miles south of Tucson, Arizona.  They claimed that the Baca Float Number 3 had been conveyed to them as a land grant from the former government in Mexico.  The object of Surveyor General Ingalls� investigation was to determine the nature of the land, whether it was primarily ranch and farm land, or whether it was primarily mineral land, that is, land that primarily had been or was being used for mining purposes.  In the course of Surveyor Ingalls� investigations, he interviewed aged residents of the area, including the highly respected Mr. Thomas Gardner, who was eighty-two years old at that time (1905).  Mr. Gardner had lived in the area for nearly fifty years.  Surveyor Ingalls also spent considerable time traveling on horseback throughout the area, and he personally inspected many old mines, and evidence of extensive mining activities.

Surveyor Ingalls wrote the following paragraph in his report to Congress.

Quote   The surface indications surrounding Salero Hill, old arastras, haciendas and patios, show beyond a doubt that this portion of the Float was occupied by miners and prospectors before and at the time the Float was located; the old workings, which are abundant, and in which crude tools have been found, conclusively show that the country was worked profitably for its mineral at that time and years before, and if the party or parties who located its boundaries, as per their denouncement of the lands they desired to select under the Act of Congress of June 21st, 1860, supra, made such denouncement after carefully, or even casually, examining the country, they knew a greater portion, if not all of the same, was occupied and was mineral in character, excepting the lands immediately adjacent to the Santa Cruz River, which were in a state of reservation by virtue of the location of the unconfirmed Tumacacori and Calabasas Grants, and I am satisfied in my own mind that the passing of title to the Grant�s heirs of any of the lands included in this survey, and particularly those lands in the N. E. corner thereof, surrounding Salero Hill, which I instructed Deputy Contzon to segregate by instructions dated June 17th, 1905, would be a great injustice, not only to those who are developing this country and extracting valuable mineral therefrom at the present time as grantors or heirs of former occupants, but an injustice to those who have passed within the Great Beyond, who sacrificed their lives at the hands of the blood-thirsty Apaches in the development thereof, long before the Baca heirs dared attempt the perpetration of this fraud on these hardy pioneers and blazers of the western trail.  Perhaps like coyotes in the night, they sneaked into this country after an Apache raid, or before a prospective one, and found the inhabitants had fled temporarily, and they then proclaimed the country vacant, unoccupied and non-mineral.   Unquote

Surveyor Ingalls included in his report information that he took verbally from a number of the local residents.  Due to space limitation only the salient points of the personal interviews is herewith provided.

Quote   Affidavit of Thomas Gardner, Exhibit No. 9.
�My name is Thomas Gardner, age 82.  I reside at Patagonia, in Santa Cruz County, Arizona. �  I first visited the Salero [mine] in 1857 with a Mexican guide.  I found three tunnels and ore shaft.  There were also some old slag piles, arastras and some ore at the grass roots. �  There is a well defined mineral zone running through the Santa Rita Mountains, with numerous outcroppings with many prospect holes showing mineral, and this was well known in 1857-58. � �  Unquote

Quote  Affidavit of George Atkinson, Exhibit No. 12.
�My name is George W. Atkinson, aged 60 years.  I reside at Calabasas� I have lived there with my family since January 1st, 1879. � The presence of deep shafts, large dumps, great piles of slag, and old arastras, show conclusively that mining operations in these mountains and within the claimed lines of the Baca Float No. 3, had been carried on very extensively, and undoubtedly with profit, as they show large expenditures of time and money.  These mines were worked years before 1863, as is shown by these excavations.  The working of mines in and about Salero Hill in 1861 and thereafter is a matter of common knowledge among residents of the country.  � I am acquainted with the San Cayetano mountains� The mountain is all mineral, and all about it, from its base to its summit, are evidences of large mining operations having been carried on��  Unquote

Quote  Affidavit of Joseph King, Exhibit No. 8.
�My name is Joseph King, aged 71 years.  I now reside and have resided on my ranch about 800 yards east of the old Tumacacori Church or Mission since April, 1865. �  While I was employed at the Salero I saw the Salero mine and it had the appearance of having been worked many years before. � I have seen at the Tumacacori mission old slag piles with mesquite trees growing up through them�. �  Unquote

Quote  Affidavit of William McCoy, Exhibit No. 13.
�William W. McCoy, being first duly sworn, deposes and says, that he is now a resident of the city of San Bernardino, California, and has been for forty years last past; that he is now of the age of seventy-six years; that he went to Tubac, Arizona in March of 1857, and remained there in said vicinity until March, 1860� the �Salero�, �Ohero� and other mines, which properties had been previously worked by Mexicans�during the time the country belonged to Mexico; that said Wrightson and Company also owned and worked the old �Mission Tumacacori�, having bought it from a priest in Hermosillo, and got title to one league of land that had been given to a Jesuit priest by the King of Spain��  Unquote

Quote  Copy of affidavit of Charles D. Poston, Exhibit No. 2 (The original of which is now on file with the Interior Department).
�Charles D. Poston, being first duly sworn on oath states, - That he is over seventy years of age.  That he came to Arizona in the year 1854; that he came to this territory for the purpose of working a mine near the town of Tubac, �Salero Hills � that region had been worked for generations by those who preceded the Spaniards and by the Spaniards and Mexicans; � that the evidences of this working for ages was evidenced by shafts and drifts and tunnels and slag piles and the ruins of old arastras and adobe smelters��  Unquote

Quote  Affidavit of Sabino Otero, Exhibit No. 5.
�Sabino Otero, being first duly sworn, testified as follows,  - I am a resident of Tubac, � I was born in said Tubac in 1844. �  I am well acquainted with Salero Hill and its neighborhood. � There is much evidence of mining having been carried on in the Santa Rita mountains�many years before the country passed under American control.  My father and uncle informed me that ores from the Salero and Huebabi and other near-by mines, were brought to Tumacacori and treated there.  I have seen at the old mission piles of slag, with large mesquite trees growing out of said slag-piles, showing that the smelting occurred long ago, -- certainly before I was born.  The Huebabi mine is located about 8 miles North of the Huebabi Mission on a range of mountains between the Potrero Creek and the said mission, and just South of old Fort Mason. � Unquote

To this point, the reported information is quite interesting regarding mesquite trees growing through slag piles at the old Tumacacori Mission.  For those who live in areas where mesquite trees are indigenous, you know how slowly that they grow.  Mesquite trees growing in the area around Tumacacori, Arizona do, indeed, grow slowly because of the lack of rain in a desert climate.

Regarding the statement by Mr. Sabino Otero that large mesquite trees grew out of slag piles at Tumacacori Mission.  I contacted a senior horticulturist at the University of Arizona's Cooperative Extension for Yuma County, who is also associated with Arizona Community Tree Council, Inc.  I was informed that a mesquite tree can survive 250 years or more.  As far as how many years it would take to consider it large would depend on the available water (and possibly nutrients).  Mesquite trees are drought tolerant and can survive long periods of time without water.  So, it may take 50 years or more to grow a 12� diameter mesquite in areas of low rainfall, whereas in a landscape or other situation with plenty of water the same tree might reach 12� diameter in 10 years.  On average a mature mesquite tree will be 24-36 inches in diameter (d.b.h.).  Working with the small amount of information available, Mr. Otero was born in 1844, and a broad paint brush assumption could hazard a guess that he may have seen and remembered the large mesquite trees in approximately 1850, when he was six years old.  Assuming that the large mesquite trees growing out of the slag piles were approximately 50 years old, this would mean that the slag piles possibly dated from the approximate year 1800.  Hence, a logical conclusion would be that either the Franciscan priests at the Tumacacori Mission were involved in mining and ore reduction, and/or that Spanish citizens were doing the work.  It must be noted that there is nothing in the information to suggest that there was any mining activity by the Jesuits, who preceded the Franciscans at Tumacacori.  Such Jesuit activity can not be ruled out based on the information, only that it is not indicated.

Part two of this two-part writing will follow shortly.  I believe that any reader will find the contents of part two to be interesting.

V.R.
IHS333

[IHS333]

Ola, Respected H.H. members, greetings:

Part Two of Two.

This is the second and final part of information regarding mines and mining in Southern Arizona.  As with the first part of this short series, the intent is to bring to your attention little known and rare information, as determined by the U.S. Surveyor General, Frank S. Ingalls in his November, 1906 report to Congress regarding the Baca Float Number 3 fraud.  The veracity of the information is based solely on the personal observations of the individuals interviewed by Surveyor Ingalls.  In this final part of the series, only one individual is featured, but because of what he said, it is good that his words stand alone.

Quote  Affidavit of Allen T. Bird, Exhibit No. 7.

�My name is Allen T. Bird, aged 56 years.  Have resided in Nogales, Santa Cruz County, Arizona, during the eleven years last past.  I am the editor of �The Oasis� newspaper published in Nogales, and by profession a mining engineer.

My knowledge of the region included in the Baca Float Grant No. 3 was acquired through personal observation made during many and frequent business and professional trips into the region, where I have had mining interests for a number of years,--being interested in the �Wandering Jew� and �Joplin� group of claims in the Tyndall District in said county, and the �great Excelsior�, a property away up in the Santa Rita mountains some ten miles North from the Wandering Jew. �

In our own properties we have found unmistakable evidences of former occupancy and operations.  Upon the �Wandering Jew� mine we stripped the top of the ledge a distance of nearly 300 feet between two shafts we were sinking.  Our first work on the trench we dug about four feet in depth was in virgin ground, and our excavation exposed the mineral in the ledge, which is a high grade galena, interspersed with gray copper.  At the end of about 150 feet we broke into an old working that had been completed much the same as our own, and afterward covered over.  First small saplings and boughs of trees had been laid across the trench, which was on a side hill just below the crest of a ridge.  The network of boughs and saplings was covered with a thick layer of closely matted twigs, over these was laid a layer of grass, and upon that a layer of dirt.  In a very short time after that covering was made, natural causes assimilated its appearance with the adjacent earth, so no one could detect the covered work.  We stopped throwing off this old covering when we reached the dump of our own shaft, and made no effort to carry it beyond the dump.  Had we sunk the shaft on the vein we should have penetrated the same old working, but we had sunk between two veins and cross-cut both, our object being to cut each away below the old work uncovered in the trench.  That work we believe to have been done by the Jesuit missionaries, the ruins of whose old church in the Santa Cruz Valley, at Tumacacori, are visible from the �Wandering Jew� ridge.  That mission was abandoned about 1769 at the time of the expulsion of the Jesuits from Mexico.  The Tumacacori priests are said to have left records to show that they operated mines in the Santa Rita mountains and shipped the bullion.

Col. Poston, in his work on Arizona, quotes the Jesuit records wherein is given a description of the location of their property.  It states that standing in the church and looking through the east door towards the mountains, about ten miles distant is seen a sharp picacho or pinnacle, and that near that are the mines worked by the priests.  Standing in the old ruined church today and looking through the east door, there is discovered the pinnacle described in the record, and it is the highest point on the ridge through which runs the �Wandering Jew� ledge.  The work we uncovered we believe to be a part of that done by the Jesuits.  And somewhere in that hill are doubtless deeper and more extensive working, co-temporary and covered in the same way.

Upon the Great Excelsior are found already completed a tunnel more than two hundred feet in length, by whom done and when no one has ever known.  The old time workers, whoever they were, first leveled off a bench about thirty feet wide in the side hill from which they started their tunnel.  The first fifty-five feet are through solid syenite, and then the ore body is penetrated and tunnel cut into that about 480 feet, in ore all the way, with ore still in the face.  About sixteen feet before the end is reached there is a drift eighteen feet wide to the right, and about one hundred feet nearer the tunnel entrance are two other drifts, one twenty-seven feet to the left, the other sixteen feet to the left.  These drifts are all in ore.  The ore is granular iron pyrites, that carries a little gold, -- not exceeding two or three dollars per ton.  In that tunnel we found an old wooden wheelbarrow.  There wasn�t a nail or a bit of iron in it.  The wheel was a slice out of the trunk of a tree, and all of its joints were fastened with rawhide thongs.  Upon the shelf outside a bulk-head had been built from tree trunks, and the ore taken out of the workings piled up against it, -- more than 200 tons.  The tunnel itself is small but as straight as an arrow, and the floor and arch are as smoothly cut and dressed as if the work had been done by a stone-cutter for a building.  When or by whom that work was done, even tradition is silent.  In the old Tumacacori mine, sold by one of my partners, Mark Lully, with the Apache Chief group, there is an old shaft, which tradition credits to the Jesuits.  Many other claims in the vicinity have similar Antigua workings.�  Unquote

V.R.
IHS333

[azstomper]

Bravo IHS333.....bravo.
Now if we could only uncover the sought after decree by the kings of spain that justly proves the monumenting of all mines and trails to and fro said mines....my pictures would be priceless.


DW

[IHS333]

Ola Respected azstomper, greetings:

Assuming that you liked the information extracted from the Ingalls Survey report, please stay tuned for even more interesting material.  The information will be from a primary source, an eye witness, who wrote a massive report to Congress.  My extracts from the report will provide his on-the-spot assessments and observations.

Thus far you have read my writings on several subjects and you probably have perceived the veracity of my analysis and conclusions.  When it comes to analysis, I take no prisoners; I build a coffin and then hammer the nails into the lid.

Regarding the King's instructions for monumenting trails.  I do not currently have such in my possession.  I am working on its acquisition, however.

V.R.
IHS333

[Fleamistress]

Ola Respected azstomper, greetings:

Assuming that you liked the information extracted from the Ingalls Survey report, please stay tuned for even more interesting material.  The information will be from a primary source, an eye witness, who wrote a massive report to Congress.  My extracts from the report will provide his on-the-spot assessments and observations.

Thus far you have read my writings on several subjects and you probably have perceived the veracity of my analysis and conclusions.  When it comes to analysis, I take no prisoners; I build a coffin and then hammer the nails into the lid.

Regarding the King's instructions for monumenting trails.  I do not currently have such in my possession.  I am working on its acquisition, however.

V.R.
IHS333

IHS333:  Oooooh.  I think some people here are Real Lucky to have you here.

Meanwhile, Wopper, can you throw a crumb to the rest of us in the form of another shadow pic or some such?

Cheers,

Cyn

[Wopper]

Howdy History Hunters,

For Cyn and the rest of you who have contacted me requesting more information dealing with shadow signs and how they work, I will give you one more picture.  Please don't ask for anymore.  As much as I would love to share more with you, I must and will refrain from doing so at this time.  In order for me to release this photo, I had to do a cover up of the surrounding area.  The photo has been manipulated because there is a lot more to this carving which I don't wish to release at this time, but I assure you the carving and the shadow sign are untouched.  In the center of the photo is a carved heart with a cross "+" inside, and down near the point.  The heart represents the treasure, for that is what your heart desires.  There are other symbols indicating direction and distance, these turned out to be false.  If you are at the carving on the right day and the right time, the entire carving metamorphoses!  At which time the shadow arrow appears pointing through the heart and cross, giving you the true direction to go.  With that said, I will say no more, so please don't ask me about any of the other symbols in the carving.



Sincerely,

Wopper

[azstomper]

IHS333 and Wopper...here is a shadow sign from site 2 here in colorado...very clever....

[IHS333]

Ola, Respected azstomper, greetings:

There are shadows, and then there are shadows.  Could you please tell us at what time of the day that the photo was taken, and also the day and the month?
 
Thank you in advance for your answer.

V.R.
IHS333

[azstomper]

9/25/07 at 12:39 in the afternoon.

DW