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[Administration]

A number of moderators have asked of this. To help initiate a discussion, here are some thoughts of my own.

I began this website purely for fun.

Doc remembers it somewhat differently. The two of us had joined forces to initiate a project, though we had no corporate structure, just a gentlemans' agreement.

I had built very many websites over the years and came to specialise in online communities. For me, it is the work of a few minutes to bolt together the essential components of a community website. I thought to surprise Doc with the website and if there was - lurking somewhere inside my head - an ulterior motive, it may have been to have an online presence through which we could discuss our common interest with others.

Despite the URL (address), this site actually resides on a server I use for hosting a number of sites. Its real address is historyhunters.coolasmustard.com - that is, a subdomain of coolasmustard. I use coolasmustard to try out community software - blogging, games, my search engine software and so on.

Advertising brings in a small income which nowadays just about covers my costs. It took 10 months to reach that level. We've had some business enquiries, though only one has paid anything and that, not much. This is not a cash cow.

Since then, the site has attracted publicity both good and bad. The OMR episode brought with it a bundle of trouble. On the other hand, it can confer a degree of kudos. For example, when I first contacted government agencies and national organisations, they took me more seriously when I mentioned the website.

Many in the news media note which stories we follow. Even governments have been known to make policy based on our position. Surprising perhaps, but true. I know of academic institutions which track us closely and refer others to us. Our reputation is generally good.

Do we now have a higher calling?

I think we do. Treasure hunting is vastly popular acress the world. Archaeology has grown enormously over the last few decades. The two are often in conflict. Maybe we can help bring the two together to the advantage of all.

English law encourages metal detectorists by rewarding reported treasure finds. Many archaeologists now use metal detectors and amateur detectorists on their archaeological sites. The UK government is proud of the cooperation between these two groups.

Marine salvors pretending to have an interest in history and archaeology have damaged greatly the reputation of treasure hunters and as a result, the fascists (and I use this term advisedly) within the heritage industry now have the ammunition to back their desires to restrict all recoveries. Looters on land outside the UK threaten similar reactions.

My feeling is that if we can keep on-side with the academics, then maybe we can engender trust between both communities. We do this in England in our archaeological work, which is closely entwined with local universities and government archaeologists, and with metal detecting clubs.

This trust will be lost if we encourage dishonesty:

- Interference with archaeology, or looting.
- Misrepresenting fiction as fact, myth as history.

As I said, this site has little commercial significance and even if it did, I don't need it. It's only excuse is that it does good.

What do you think?

[Fleamistress]

English law encourages metal detectorists by rewarding reported treasure finds. Many archaeologists now use metal detectors and amateur detectorists on their archaeological sites. The UK government is proud of the cooperation between these two groups.

The Brits are brilliant.  I remember reading about a Viking cache found last year by 2 MD'ers and that they were given a very nice stipend for their finds.  I nearly fell over.  My first thought when I was reading that they took the items to a museum was "fools!"  But that was before I got to the rest of the text.

I think Americans are  especially cagey about assets of any kind, what with healthcare being a privilege of the wealthier, and 51% of our tax dollars going into the military budget, according to the War Resisters League.  Crunch all of the numbers and there's clear "taxation without representation" here which contributes to a collective conscious, or unconscious, suspicion of any authority, and who could blame us?
 

My hypothesis is that if a study was done of, say, openess of TH'ers as related to their socio-political cultures, something may be found there.

Then there's plain greed.  This is something I'm constitutionally incapable of, but I wouldn't mind the opportunity.


Lobbying for inter-groups cooperation on the government level is an excellent idea.  Boy, what we might get done then!

Cheers,

Cyn

[Administration]

Our board on Metal Detecting relates many finds and this article - �460,000 Coin Record - shows just how rewarding can be even a single, small find.


Edward III Double Leopard

I was interested to note that when we were working in France recently, we found that the French were now operating the same legal system for treasure and archaeology as England. Before, it had been very different.

Heritage issues have become international and I suspect that there is an opportunity in many nations for a new look at metal detecting.

[Fleamistress]

Am I correct in that they simply dug it and sold it outright on the open market?

Cyn

[Bart]

Cyn;

                           Gold Double Leopard of King Edward III, 1344

   The Double Leopard is one of the rarest and most beautiful of English medieval gold coins. It was issued for a period of only six months between January and July 1344, and until recently only two examples of this coin were known, found by boys scavenging in the mud of the River Tyne in 1857. This new specimen of the Double Leopard was discovered by a metal-detector user in February 2006, and sold at auction in London in June 2006. It is now on loan to the Fitzwilliam Museum from Avarae Global Coins plc, and may be seen in the Rothschild Gallery of Medieval and Renaissance Art.

   The short answer is no, the find was reported to, and turned over to the authorities and the auction process was initialized by them. Normally the detectorist/finder receives half, and the landowner, if there is one, receives the other half. 

   Several years ago, I observed an estate sale of a rare world coin collection. The collector had died, and no one in the family had a clue what the coins were worth, so they were given to a coin dealer for an appraisal/offer for them. The family accepted between 50k and 100k, the local dealer and a Zurich, Switzerland dealer split the profits of a 300k deal, and on the collection went to an ever greater amount through other dealers to the final owner. I was able to examine the entire collection, which was truly awesome. In short, the family got ripped off, mostly due to the fact that they did not want to 'mess' with the details of finding the best outlet for the collection. Had they done so, they would have received the majority of a seven figure amount for it.

Bart

[Administration]

Thanks for the explanation and story, Bart. A lesson to be learned there.

I have to be careful talking about the British system, because each country has its own laws. The English system (in short) is that when a person makes a find which is mainly gold or silver, they hand it in and if a museum wants it, then it is valued commercially and the finder rewarded in full, or the find is given back. The finder must have written agreement to search from the landowner, in which case both get a share - if not, the landowner gets the reward (on the basis that an unauthorised search is trespass and perhaps stealing).

The system works. Many thousands of finds are handed in each year. The reward is often, in my view, far more than the finder would get privately, because a private seller of an antiquity will rarely receive anything like the theoretcical value in the real world. The government pays top theoretical price.

Considering how the fields of Europe are littered with sites and finds, I believe that one could have a good business in Britain searching for finds.

When Vince bought his house (part of an army complex in Dover) he found a site in his back garden. When I searched the area near my home, I found a henge had been built over. There's no real wildnerness left - people have lived, worked and fought over every square inch for tens of thousands of years.

Metal detectorists are asked to not disturb archaeology. The rule of thumb is 'don't dig beneath the plowshare'. A detectorist may be be invited to work with the archaeologists who dig the found site. History Hunters does this, using a local club to provide the detectorists and the system seems to work to the satisfaction of all. We even have government officials digging with us at the same time.

[Fleamistress]

Well, I am a desperate wannabe ex-pat...

Verily,

Cyn