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Author Topic: "James" Ossuary  (Read 1566 times)
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Bart
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« on: September 15, 2006, 10:00:17 PM »

The bias was very obvious early on. - Bart

Israel

Adding to the continuing controversy over the authenticity of the ?James ossuary?, owned by Oded Golan, who remains on trial in Jerusalem for dealing illegally in antiquities and especially supposed forgeries which it is claimed he created, an extensive report on the ossuary has now been produced by the eminent expert in stone patinas, Professor Wolfgang E. Krumbein of Oldenberg University, Germany. Following a careful examination, he has declared that the entire inscription is genuine and that even if the second part were a forgery, the patina inside the inscription could not have been formed in less than 50 years. ?Patina sampled from the surface of the ossuary, far away from the inscription, was found to be identical to the microscopic traces of patina, which I found inside the ossuary inscription and sites sloping from the surface into the inscription grooves (and no indication of any kind was found of any adhesive on this patina). Therefore, we must conclude that the patina formed over the entire ossuary and the remains of patina in the inscription area were formed over the same period of time?.

Professor Krumbein also found the conclusions of the Israel Antiquities Authority that the critical second part of the inscription was forged to ?originate from a series of errors, biases, mistaken premises, use of inappropriate methodology, mistaken geochemistry, defective error control, reliance on unconfirmed data, disregard of information?, and so on. A complete copy of the report has been published on the website of the Biblical Archaeology Society (www.biblicalarchaeology.org).

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Solomon
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 10:28:32 AM »

Good one, Bart!

Science rationally modifies a theory to fit evidence, creationism emotionally modifies evidence to fit a specific interpretation of the bible.

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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 04:07:33 PM »


Religious belief cum agenda must be considered on all sides of such an issue. It would be quite interesting to see a time line of all known texts, including those considered religious. If it hasn't been done, it might make a good thesis for a student.
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 10:14:30 PM »

That is an intriguing idea, Bart. Let me sleep on it. I'm exhausted and can hardly see - been running around fields for the last few days.

Solomon
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 11:43:50 PM »

In Jerusalem, archaeology is politics.

Collector accused of forging 'James ossuary' says old photos prove authenticity
 
By Amiram Barkat
 
   Mysterious photographs from the 1970s are to be brought as evidence to prove that the so-called ossuary of James, the brother of Jesus, is authentic. They are to be presented by attorneys for Oded Golan, the antiquities dealer charged with forging the item, which when it was made public, was dubbed "the most important archaeological discovery from the beginnings of Christianity."

   The photographs, copies of which have reached Haaretz, have already been examined by an American expert and are to be submitted as evidence in court. But they do not remove doubts about the item, which touched off a storm in the archaeological world.

   In December 2004, after a lengthy police investigation, the State Prosecutor's Office indicted Golan and three other Israelis for what they called the most serious case of antiquities forgery ever uncovered in Israel.

   Golan, 55, a Tel Aviv resident, was charged with allegedly masterminding a ring responsible for the fabrication of antiquities over a period of more than 15 years. According to the charge sheet, the group stands accused of attempting to sell items to museums and wealthy collectors for millions of dollars.

   The indictment states that in 2001 or shortly before, Golan forged the inscription on the ossuary (bone receptacle) and that at approximately that same time, also forged the so-called "Joash inscription."

   The ossuary was unveiled in a press conference in Washington, D.C., in October 2002. It was inscribed in Aramaic with words interpreted as "Yaakov the brother of Yeshua," alluding to the fact that the individual whose bones it held was Jesus' brother, James, mentioned in the New Testament. A geological test commissioned by the owners of the ossuary and confirming the authenticity of the find was presented at the briefing.

   A panel appointed by the director of the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), Shuka Dorfman, determined in June 2003 that the inscription on the ossuary was "added recently," while the ossuary itself was authentic.

   In the defense's photographs, dated 1976, the ossuary is shown on a shelf, apparently in Golan's home. In an enlargement, the whole inscription can be seen with great difficulty. The photo was examined by Gerald Richard, a former FBI agent and an expert for the defense. Richard testified that "Nothing was noted that would indicate or suggest that they were not produced in March 1976 as indicated on the stamps appearing on the reverse side of each print."

   Golan's attorney, Lior Beringer, told Haaretz that the photos support the defense's position. "The prosecution claims that Golan forged the inscription after the beginning of 2000. But here is a detailed report from an FBI photo lab that states that the inscription existed at least since the 70s," Beringer said. "It is unreasonable that someone would forge an inscription like this in the 70s and suddenly decide to come out with it in 2002," he added.

   The date of the photo is also significant legally because any antiquity discovered in Israel since the passage of the 1978 Antiquities Law belongs to the state.

   The IAA refused yesterday to comment on the new finds and would say only that the matter was being dealt with by the state prosecutor.

   The photos join experts in Israel and other countries who have tried to disparage the credibility of the IAA panel, in what the IAA at the time described as a well-orchestrated campaign backed by interested parties. The accusation was leveled against Hershel Shanks, the editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review, published in the U.S. Shanks' identification of the ossuary brought him credit worldwide. He funded the exhibition of the ossuary in a Toronto museum, from which money poured in from thousands of visitors to the organizers, including Shanks. Shanks has told Haaretz in the past that he is motivated by the desire to get to the truth in the matter.

   But it is the way the ossuary was found that seems to raise the most doubts. Golan, whose friends say his knowledge is "phenomenal," said that for years he did not realize that he had of the most important archaeological finds in the world on his shelf. When asked by Haaretz about this in an interview, he explained, "It didn't set off any bells, I am not an expert in Christian tradition."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823215.html
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Solomon
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2007, 12:14:31 PM »


Like many a fraudulent treasure hunt, this tale is descending into the ridiculous. The latest news offers much humour.

As with all jokes, the biggest laugh comes in the punchline:

Golan, whose friends say his knowledge is "phenomenal," said that for years he did not realize that he had of the most important archaeological finds in the world on his shelf. When asked by Haaretz about this in an interview, he explained, "It didn't set off any bells, I am not an expert in Christian tradition."

The biblical Jesus and Joseph would have to be the most famous Jews of all time, even if they are fictional.

We are being asked to believe that he had the box on his shelf for decades without knowing its importance.

Photos as proof? In today's world, when anyone with a PC can make anything appear in a photo?

A forger wouldn't forge a rubber stamp?

An expert witness wouldn't do his master's bidding?

Now, why is this important?

There is no reliable evidence for the historicity of Jesus. None whatsoever.

It is my view that such a figure could not have existed.

Even a casual look at the texts in which this figure is described shows internal inconsistencies. More detailed studies show the character to be drawn from a variety of sources, mainly Greek mythology.

It did not need a genius to figure out that there was a fortune to be made in providing the first bit of 'evidence'.

Lastly and considering that the NT is a collection of Romano-Greek, anti-semitic fiction composed in the shadow of Jewish revolts against Rome, nobody today should be surprised if there is Jewish backlash.

Maybe the ossuary is just the start.

Solomon
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Bart
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2007, 04:50:23 PM »

Ok, I see your point, if there is no historicity for the character, there would be no artifact that could be genuine. I was looking at it from the angle that there could have been someone named (James), with a brother named Yeshua, sons of Joseph. But then, if they were ordinary nobodies, there would be no need for the elaborately inscribed ossuary. So no matter how you look at it, it cannot be genuine.

- Bart
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Solomon
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 05:57:37 PM »

It's a double-whammy, Bart. That there is no reliable evidence is not, alone, proof of his non-existence. I consider this ossuary as an attempt to fill that gap.

For me, neither this, nor any other artefact can prove the existence of somebody who did not exist, much less somebody who could not exist. This is a separate matter, though, from the mere lack of evidence.

Similarly, no argument for the genuineness of this artfact can overcome the evidences against.

The provenance is lacking.
Golan said he cannot remember, or no longer identify the dealer from whom he purchased the ossuary. To my mind, this is typical of these cases.

The patina of the inscription is questionable.

There are inconsistencies in the style of the lettering.

When a French paleographic expert, in collaboration with the BAR, assessed the ossuary's authenticity, the the ossuary was otherwise undecorated. When inspected later, it was decorated with rosettes.

As I said, it no longer matters to me what arguments - photographic or otherwise - are provided for the ossuary, it is a proven forgery that never could have related to the biblical Jesus.

Solomon
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 02:39:00 AM »

We have been given permission to republish this article:
Indications that the "Brother of Jesus" Inscription is a Forgery

Solomon
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2007, 04:26:22 PM »

I've found the coffin of Jesus, says film director James Cameron
25.02.07

A Hollywood director will today unveil three coffins he claims were those of Jesus, his mother Mary and his 'wife' Mary Magdalene.

James Cameron says he has proof that Jesus married Mary and that she bore him a son, Judah, who was buried alongside them.

'Jesus' tomb


The Titanic director has produced a documentary telling the story of ten stone coffins found in a 2,000-year-old tomb in Jerusalem by Israeli builders.

The Lost Tomb of Jesus, made for the Discovery Channel, will be shown in the U.S. this week and later in Britain by Channel 4.

Today, Cameron is holding a press conference on what he describes as 'one of the greatest archaeological finds of all time'.

Crucially, he is not denying the resurrection - as there were no bones in the caskets.

But the ?2million film still strikes at the foundation of Christianity in the same manner as the novel The Da Vinci Code, by Dan Brown, in claiming that Jesus married and had a family.

His theory, which has already met with derision from experts, centers on a tomb found in the Talpiot suburb in 1980. Inside, archaeologists found ten coffins, or caskets for bones, and three skulls.


Six had names etched into them, which were translated as Jesus son of Joseph, Judah son of Jesus, Maria, Mariamne (thought to be Mary Magdalene's real name), Joseph and Matthew.

At the time the inscriptions provoked little interest. The Israeli Antiquities Authority said the names were common at the time.

A connection to the holy family was not made until 15 years later, when a film crew stumbled across the collection in a storeroom.

Though the bones had long since been reburied elsewhere, as was the custom, tiny traces of DNA left in the caskets were tested.

The results for the coffins labelled Jesus and Mariamne showed the two were not related by blood, leading Cameron and his team to conclude they were married.

The film's Israeli director, Simcha Jacobovici, said: 'Either this cluster-of names represents the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

'Or some other family, with this very same constellation of names, existed at precisely the same time in history in Jerusalem.'

The idea that Mary Magdalene had a child with Jesus was the main theme of The Da Vinci Code. The book claimed their union was kept secret in a church conspiracy.

The location of Cameron's conference is being kept secret until the last moment to stop crowds trying to see the artefacts. The cave in which they were found has also been put under armed guard.

However, the archaeologist who oversaw the work at the tomb described the theory as 'nonsense'.

Amos Kloner said the names found on the coffins had been found in tombs before, adding: 'It makes a great story for a TV film, but it's impossible.

'Jesus and his relatives were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the first century.'
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2007, 05:26:58 PM »

Maybe a film about a film is in order.  Grin

Never let facts stand in the way of a good story: Hollywood scriptwriters' rule.
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2007, 10:02:29 PM »

There seems to be an all out effort to manufacture a family, lineage, history, and religion all at once here.

- Bart


Archaeologists, scholars dispute Jesus documentary

POSTED: 1849 GMT (0249 HKT), February 26, 2007

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Archaeologists and clergymen in the Holy Land derided claims in a new documentary produced by the Oscar-winning director James Cameron that contradict major Christian tenets.

   "The Lost Tomb of Christ," which the Discovery Channel will run on March 4, argues that 10 ancient ossuaries -- small caskets used to store bones -- discovered in a suburb of Jerusalem in 1980 may have contained the bones of Jesus and his family, according to a press release issued by the Discovery Channel.

   One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of Jesus," hinting that Jesus may have had a son. And the very fact that Jesus had an ossuary would contradict the Christian belief that he was resurrected and ascended to heaven. (Watch why it could be any Mary, Jesus and Joseph in those boxes  FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Video" )

   Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City. The burial site identified in Cameron's documentary is in a southern Jerusalem neighborhood nowhere near the church.

   In 1996, when the BBC aired a short documentary on the same subject, archaeologists challenged the claims. Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by archaeological standards but makes for profitable television.

   "They just want to get money for it," Kloner said. The claims have raised the ire of Christian leaders in the Holy Land.

   "The historical, religious and archaeological evidence show that the place where Christ was buried is the Church of the Resurrection," said Attallah Hana, a Greek Orthodox clergyman in Jerusalem. The documentary, he said, "contradicts the religious principles and the historic and spiritual principles that we hold tightly to."

   Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's hypothesis holds little weight.

   "I don't think that Christians are going to buy into this," Pfann said. "But skeptics, in general, would like to see something that pokes holes into the story that so many people hold dear."

   "How possible is it?" Pfann said. "On a scale of one through 10 -- 10 being completely possible -- it's probably a one, maybe a one and a half." Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun."

   Kloner also said the filmmakers' assertions are false. "It was an ordinary middle-class Jerusalem burial cave," Kloner said. "The names on the caskets are the most common names found among Jews at the time."

   Archaeologists also balk at the filmmaker's claim that the James Ossuary -- the center of a famous antiquities fraud in Israel -- might have originated from the same cave. In 2005, Israel charged five suspects with forgery in connection with the infamous bone box.

   "I don't think the James Ossuary came from the same cave," said Dan Bahat, an archaeologist at Bar-Ilan University. "If it were found there, the man who made the forgery would have taken something better. He would have taken Jesus."

   Although the documentary makers claim to have found the tomb of Jesus, the British Broadcasting Corporation beat them to the punch by 11 years.

   Osnat Goaz, a spokeswoman for the Israeli government agency responsible for archaeology, declined to comment before the documentary was aired.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/26/jesus.sburial.ap/
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Solomon
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2007, 12:57:56 AM »

I've been following this story from the beginning and when I found out how many ossuaries there were, I was quite rocked. I also realised that as most of the NT names were common, then there must be many boxes with such names on them. The implication is clear.

As a devout nonbeliever in the NT as a piece of history, one could be forgiven for expecting me to join in the chorus declaring that these boxes are for NT characters, as this would demonstrate that there was no resurrection.

Instead, I find no temptation for two reasons:

1. My views are based on evidential reasoning. Different and reliable evidence against my view can change my mind. I welcome new perspectives.

2. The facts and logic argue so strongly against the NT Jesus as a historical character that I regard it as impossible for reliable archaeological evidence to demonstrate otherwise. That is, whether the proposed character is divine or earthly (bodily resurrected or boxed), makes no difference - neither could have existed.

In my view, though most of the NT accounts of this character are mythic in origin, parts were drawn on historical characters, at least one of which was named Jesus. It is therefore possible for an ossuary to appear with the name Jesus on it and for this have have been the bone box for a Jesus, whose life was drawn upon in some small part for the NT character.

Solomon
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2007, 02:53:08 PM »

   
   
JPost.com ? Israel ? Article
Feb. 27, 2007 0:02 | Updated Feb. 27, 2007 15:26
Israel may open 'Jesus tomb' to public
By ETGAR LEFKOVITS AND DAVID HOROVITZ

Israeli authorities say they are prepared to consider opening to the public a 2,000-year-old burial tomb in Jerusalem's East Talpiot neighborhood which is said by the makers of a new documentary to have likely been the final resting place of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother, partner Mary Magdalene, son, and other members of his family.

The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), responsible for the tomb - which was first uncovered during construction of the neighborhood in 1980 - said it would be up to the Jerusalem Municipality to make such a decision. And municipality spokesman Gidi Schmerling told The Jerusalem Post on Monday night that if a request were made to open the site, it would be considered.

# Raiders of the Lost Tomb
# Analysis: Christian heresy of the Talpiot tomb?
# Kloner: A great story, but nonsense
# Talpiot residents: Jesus's new neighbors?
# 'Jesus, Magdalene, and son in Talpiot tomb'

The producers of The Lost Tomb of Jesus, which was formally launched at a press conference in New York on Monday and is being screened in the US, Israel and elsewhere next week, claim that six of the 10 ossuaries found in the tomb and held by the IAA bear inscriptions that link them to "Jesus son of Joseph," "Mary," "Jose" (a brother of Jesus), "Matia" (another relative), "Mariamne" (said to be Mary Magdalene) and a child named "Judah son of Jesus." The IAA loaned out the "Jesus" and "Mariamne" ossuaries to the filmmakers for their press conference.

The filmmakers also claim that forensic tests tie the so-called "James" (brother of Jesus) ossuary, which was "discovered" in 2002 in the collection of Israeli collector Oded Golan, to the same tomb. The "James" inscription has been widely branded a forgery.

The film, made by Israeli-born, Canadian-based Simcha Jacobovici, presents what it says is overwhelming statistical evidence - based on the cluster of resonant names and supporting scientific research - that the cave was the burial tomb of Jesus and his family.

But the Israeli archeologist responsible for the 1980 excavation, Prof. Amos Kloner, on Monday night intensified his criticism of this assertion, lambasting the documentary as "absolute nonsense."

At their press conference, Jacobovici said he now "dreamed" of the opportunity for the tomb to be more properly excavated. He and a colleague were able to enter the tomb, which lies sealed beneath a rectangular slab between rows of buildings in East Talpiot, only briefly during the filming of the documentary, with the permission of neighbors. They were asked to leave and reseal it by an IAA official who was called to the site.

"We rediscovered the tomb," Jacobovici noted, adding that many had believed erroneously it was destroyed during the 1980s' construction. "The tomb is there! There may be inscriptions in the tomb," he said, along with all kinds of other evidence including bones that might bolster, or shatter, the documentary's claims. "This is the beginning."

The filmmakers also expressed the hope that they would be given further access to the various ossuaries, which might enable additional forensic and possibly DNA and other testing. The filmmakers said they were able to retrieve sufficient material from the "Jesus" and "Mariamne" ossuaries to establish that they were not the bone-boxes of blood relatives; hence their theory that Jesus and "Mariamne" were a couple, and possibly the parents of the child "Judah."

IAA officials would not comment on whether further such access to the ossuaries would be allowed. The IAA said it had lent out the two ossuaries displayed in New York in the name of "artistic freedom," without endorsing the filmmakers' findings in any way.

James Cameron, the Oscar-winning Hollywood executive producer of the documentary, said at the press conference that the style of burial as seen in the ossuaries from the tomb was only followed for about a century, at the time of Jesus, for about 80,000 individuals.

The filmmaker's statistician, Andrey Feuerverger of the University of Toronto, said that "Based on the assumptions that I had [given to me]... we're seeing numbers that... make you think... this is it." Feuerverger offered overwhelming statistics - in the range of 100-1 to 1000-1 against the thesis being wrong, though in the movie the statistics cited are even more overwhelmingly conclusive.

In answer to a question, Jacobovici acknowledged that if the inscription on the "Jesus" ossuary is actually illegible, as some critics have claimed, the whole thesis collapses. "If this doesn't say Jesus, yes, it all falls apart," he said of the inscribed ossuary. But every expert to whom the inscription had been shown, he said, had conclusively confirmed it as reading "Jesus son of Joseph." The original Israeli catalogue of the ossuaries from the tomb recorded it as reading "Jesus," too, he said.

Dr. James Tabor, chairman of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, said the ossuary from the Talpiot tomb was the only one ever found with a confirmed provenance bearing the inscription "Jesus son of Joseph."

The filmmakers' presentation was met by a largely receptive journalistic audience. Indeed, the biggest doubter was on the filmmakers' own panel.

Shimon Gibson, who was one of the original team that worked at the tomb when it was first discovered in 1980, said he was "skeptical" of the Jesus family claims. "I'm willing to accept the possibility," he allowed. "I'm not going to deny there's an interesting set of variables."

Gibson said the original team "viewed [the tomb] as a normal family tomb of a Jewish family from the 1st century... All the names were well known. None of them seemed to us to be unusual." The authorities lacked the capability to do the kind of analysis that would be possible now, he said, and he hoped that such further research would be permissible.

Back in Jerusalem, by contrast, Israeli archeologists were firmly dismissive, reiterating that the similarity of the names found inscribed on the ossuaries to those in the Jesus narrative was coincidental since many of those names were commonplace in the first century CE.

"Yeshua was such a popular name during the Second Temple Period," said Israeli archeologist Danny Bahat, who is currently with the University of Toronto. "The fact that you have such similar names is due to the fact that these were the prevalent names during that time," he said.

Bahat added that, like The Da Vinci Code, the new documentary was pure fiction that took "two correct facts" and mixed them with "gibberish," such as the assertion that the "James" ossuary originated in the same cave.
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Solomon
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2007, 03:01:56 PM »

We have this relevant report:
Final Report Of The Examining Committees For the Yehoash Inscription and James Ossuary
In summary, both inscriptions are false.

Conclusions: The inscriptions on both items are forged and date to modern times.

We, the committee members for examination of the materials of the Yehoash inscription and the James Ossuary conclude that the patina on both items is forged and significantly varies from the original patina on the items.
 
 
Respectfully,
 
Dr. Uzi Dahari
Deputy Director and
Chairman of the Materials Committee and
Committees Coordinator
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