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« on: October 19, 2007, 10:18:44 AM »

Rome is - or is host to - the capital of how many sovereign states?

I do not know the answer, but I know what it is not.
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2007, 07:41:35 PM »

Um.  The vatican, the see and lazio? Cheesy

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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2007, 03:39:58 PM »

 Grin
Well, you have one of them - the Vatican State. Italy is, of course, another.
Any more?
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 08:35:14 AM »

Grin
Well, you have one of them - the Vatican State. Italy is, of course, another.
Any more?

Dear Capo,

I reckon I can figure it out, but--why do we care?  Smiley

Ciao! 

Cyn

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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2007, 01:18:05 PM »

Maybe as it has something to do with history and this is History Hunters? Tongue

Sovereign Military Order of Malta

The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta (known as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM), Order of Malta or Knights of Malta for short) is a Catholic order based in Rome, Italy. The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is a sovereign subject of international law.

It takes its origins from the Knights Hospitaller, an organization founded in Jerusalem in 1080 as an Amalfitan hospital to provide care for poor and sick pilgrims to the Holy Land. After the conquest of Jerusalem in 1099 during the First Crusade, it became a Catholic military order under its own charter. Following the loss of Christian territory in the Holy Land, the Order operated from Rhodes, over which it was sovereign, and later from Malta - where it administered a vassal state under the Spanish viceroy of Sicily.

Although this state came to an end with the ejection of the Order from Malta by Napoleon, the Order as such survived. It retains its claims of sovereignty under international law and has been granted permanent observer status at the United Nations, although its claims of sovereignty are disputed by some scholars. SMOM is considered to be the main successor to the medieval Knights Hospitaller, and today operates as a largely religious, charitable and hospitaller organization.


So here is an ancient Order of hospitaller knights, much like that of the Templars - which is being discussed elsewhere in this forum.

We also learn that a sovereign state does not need territory, which is an interesting concept. I wonder if there is another sovereign state without either a nation, or national territory.

Rome must be the only city in the world which is the capital of 3 (or more) sovereign states.

Now, isn't that interesting?
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2007, 10:16:28 PM »

I was aware there was some kind of military was overseen by the Vatican, but didn't think that had anything to do with Rome/Government; that perhaps was responsible only Vatican City.

Interesting history.  Thank you. 

I find the blurry boundaries between church and state here dizzying.

Cheers!

Cyn
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 12:50:03 PM »

The Vatican State has its own army:

Military of the Vatican

While the Swiss Guard is the most famous military unit in the service of the Vatican City, historically a number of other units existed. The last remaining units other than the Swiss Guards, the Noble Guard and the Palatine Guard, were abolished by Pope Paul VI in 1970.

    * Noble Guard, the former papal horse guards.
    * Swiss Guard, the infantry unit of the papal guards.
    * Palatine Guard, the former militia.
    * Corsican Guard, the former militia.

The most famous of these is The Swiss Guard:


Papal Swiss Guards in traditional uniforms

Swiss Guards are Swiss mercenary soldiers who have served as bodyguards, ceremonial guards, and palace guards at foreign European courts from the late 15th century until the present day (in the form of the Papal Swiss Guard). They have generally had a high reputation for discipline and loyalty to their employers. Some of these units have also served as fighting troops in the field. There were also regular Swiss mercenary regiments serving as line troops in various armies, notably those of France, Spain and Naples until the 19th century who were not household or guard units.

Various "Swiss Guards" have existed. The earliest such detachment was the Swiss "Hundred Guard" (Cent-Garde) at the French court (1497 � 1830). This small force was complemented in 1567 by a Swiss Guard regiment. The Papal Swiss Guard in the Vatican was founded in 1506 and is the only Swiss Guard that still exists. In the 18th century several other Swiss Guards existed for periods in various European courts.



This is unrelated to the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, which is the third sovereign state within Rome.

Cheers!

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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 02:50:13 PM »

Yes, I do believe that Rome hosts the capital of three sovereign states:
1. Italy
2. The Vatican
3. Knights of Malta.

Today, we take for granted that the Vatican State is just a small enclave within the city, whereas it has a history of being much larger.


GOVERNMENT AND INSTITUTIONS
The Pope exercises supreme legislative, executive, and judicial power over the Holy See and the State of the Vatican City. Pope Benedict XVI, former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, was elected and invested on April 19 and formally inaugurated on April 24, 2005.

The term "Holy See" refers to the composite of the authority, jurisdiction, and sovereignty vested in the Pope and his advisers to direct the worldwide Roman Catholic Church. As the "central government" of the Roman Catholic Church, the Holy See has a legal personality that allows it to enter into treaties as the juridical equal of a state and to send and receive diplomatic representatives. The Holy See has formal diplomatic relations with 175 nations, including the United States and many predominantly Muslim countries. The Holy See also maintains relations of a special nature with the Russian Federation and the Organization for the Liberation of Palestine.

Created in 1929 to provide a territorial identity for the Holy See in Rome, the State of Vatican City is a recognized national territory under international law. The Holy See enters into international agreements and receives and sends diplomatic representatives.

Administration of Vatican City State
The Pope delegates the internal administration of the Vatican City to the Pontifical Commission for the State of Vatican City. Vatican City maintains the Swiss Guards, a voluntary military force, as well as a modern security corps. It has its own post office, commissary, bank, railway station, electrical generating plant, television center, and publishing house. The Vatican also issues its own coins, stamps and Internet domain (.va). Vatican Radio, the official radio station, is one of the most influential in Europe. L'Osservatore Romano is the semi-official newspaper, published daily in Italian, and weekly in English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, and French (plus a monthly edition in Polish).

Administration of the Holy See
The Pope exercises his authority through the Roman Curia and the Papal Civil Service. The Roman Curia consists of the Secretariat of State, nine Congregations, three Tribunals, 11 Pontifical Councils, and a complex of offices that administer church affairs at the highest level. The Secretariat of State, under the Cardinal Secretary of State, directs and coordinates the Curia. On September 15, 2006, Pope Benedict XVI appointed Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone as Secretary of State (a role equivalent to that of prime minister) and appointed Archbishop Dominique Mamberti as Secretary for Relations with States (equivalent to foreign minister).

Among the most active of the major Curial institutions are the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which oversees church doctrine; the Congregation for Bishops, which coordinates the appointment of bishops worldwide; the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, which oversees all missionary activities; and the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, which deals with international peace and social issues.

Three tribunals are responsible for judicial power. The Apostolic Penitentiary deals with matters of conscience; the Roman Rota is responsible for appeals, including annulments of marriage; and the Apostolic Signatura is the final court of appeal.

The Prefecture for Economic Affairs coordinates the finances of the Holy See departments and supervises the administration of the Patrimony of the Holy See, an investment fund dating back to the Lateran Pacts. A committee of 15 cardinals, chaired by the Secretary of State, has final oversight authority over all financial matters of the Holy See, including those of the Institute for Works of Religion, the Vatican bank.


Before the Vatican State came the Papal States:

The Papal States, State(s) of the Church or Pontifical States (in Italian Stato Ecclesiastico, Stato della Chiesa, Stati della Chiesa or Stati Pontificii) was one of the major historical states of Italy before the Italian peninsula was unified in 1861 by the kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia (after which the Papal States, in less territorially extensive form, continued to exist until 1870). The Papal States comprised those territories over which the Pope was the ruler in a civil as well as a spiritual sense before 1870. This governing power is commonly called the temporal power of the Pope, as opposed to his ecclestiastical primacy.


The Papal States 1870
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