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[Ledgant]

A maritime museum sent me a photocopy of my g.g.g.g grandfather's family tree/table and also a poem by him called "the godwyn legend".
The thing that is puzzling me is that for the main branch it states "The Hamptons,a Kentish family whose crest is a "Fleece in suspentia" OR "Fleece in serpentia", I can't make out the the script,and am not sure what the words suspentia or serpentia mean?? fleece and serpents or fleeces suspended? it looks more like "suspentia",Does anyone know of any crests relating to Fleece? suspended fleece? the wool trade? Or the godwyn legend ? The poem seems to be about a mythical island that sunk.

It also states underneath  "Descendants of Gallant Hampton of Historic fame".I can find zero on that also.

This line were from Dover,Kent. 

[Bart]

Welcome to History Hunters Ledgant.

I would love to see the whole poem if you could post it here please. Also post the crest and any other documents and information of pertinence, dates/ names, it would help immensely, and be much appreciated. There are many heraldry sites, and navigating them can be a bit tricky at times, but I for one would be willing to give it a shot.

Bart

[Ledgant]

The Godwyn Legend

The sparkling mead with riot crown'd
beams high in Godwins hall
the chieftans lofty roofs resound
with triumph ,shout and brawl

The bold sea-rovers these reclined
their daring prowess boast
whose unfurl'd pennon to the wind
oft awed the neighbouring coast

And all was joy and revelrie
around the feudal board
when stranger sounds of minstrelsie
a silence deep restored

Unseen the hands which touched the chord
by holy music filled
whose well known
strains to Godwins lord
his heart with horror filled

Prophetic fears and haggard sleep
around his pillow form
such shades as rest beneath the deep
or rise upon the storm

The tempest comes- its midnight roar
fell on the warriors ears
the bursting waves assult the shore
strange voices ride the air

Behold I come! the whelming seas
beneath my footsteps roar
hark fearful sound ,thy destinys no more!

A dreadful shadow points thy doom
thy day of glorys past
to wandering barks henceforth
a tomb where sailors shriek their last

Haste men the bark the toscin ring
a deluge pours around
the billows over the ramparts spring
and burst above the mound

Hoarse shouts are heard along the strand
launch, launch the storm sail try
restless seas invade the land
haste to the vessels fly

Too late he cries my broken vows
the ruined fields deform
no more shall rovers there carouse
or shelter from the storm'

On Stours fair banks retired he dwelt
and found a refuge there
and daily with contrition knelt
in pentinence and in prayer.

The only thing i can find relating to a "fleece suspended" is the order of the golden fleece,also a serpent/dragon and fleece related to a greek myth/colchis? maybe it was something to do with wool?

I do not have an image of the crest,and am not even sure what they mean by 'crest?',my g greatgrandfather [x4] was just a captain/mariner.His name was Kennett Beecham Martin.This line "The Hamptons" starts with a marriage in 1714 at St Mary the Virgin,Dover of Jhn Hampton to Hanna Gallant,child born 1717 "Gallant Hampton".The Martin line goes further back to a scholar Stephen "born in the reign of queen anne,who remembered dover
before the innovations of the first american war".

[Bart]

Ledgant;

At Encyclopedia Myhica , a search of Mythology, Folklore, Bestiary, Heroes, Image gallery, and Genealogy tables revealed nothing relating to Godwyn.  What you have here in the poem may well be just be the title of the poem 'The Legend of Godwyn', and not a real legend at all. It may also be a sea shanty that your ancestor wrote and recorded.

   The poem refers to the Stours. There are two River Stours in the south, one in Kent and the other in Dorset, the latter  has very little in common with the former.  The Dorset Stour rises at Stourhead, which is one of the earliest eighteenth-century landscape gardens, that has lakes,  temples and wooded area. It flows to the south through Gillingham and the beautiful countryside that has much in character with the area.

   The Stour has associations with the Dorset novelist, Thomas Hardy and it is featured mainly in Tess of the d'Urbervilles. The fine towns of Blandford Forum, Crawford Bridge, Kingston Lacy and Wimborne Minster  with their elegant buildings are a well known feature of the Stour as it flows ever onwards to Christchurch where it meets the sea.

   I find nothing related to Gallant Hampton, but have searched little on the name, and will post any reference here when found.

Bart

[Fleamistress]

Could fleece in suspension? be a sheep or a lamb alone on a colored background ("floating")or on a bridge?  The bridge bit is tongue-in-cheek but who knows?

Here's a little something on family crests.  There are many sites of this type on the web:

http://www.fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm

Cheers!

[Bart]

   Crest - In feudal livery, an ornament of the headpiece that afforded protection against a blow. The term is incorrectly used to mean family coat of arms. Crests were widely used in the 13th cent. by feudal chiefs, as they had been by ancient Greek warriors and the Roman centurions.

   In heraldry a fleece is a whole, stuffed ram's fleece, complete with head and feet, suspended by a band around its middle. "suspentia" would be the more likely correct spelling in your document.

Bart

On the Origin of the Emblem of the Order of the Golden Fleece

   The Order of the Golden Fleece was founded by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy, when he married Isabella of Portugal in Bruges, Flanders in 1429/30. The reason for his choice of the Golden Fleece as the emblem of his new Order has puzzled historians ever since.
     
   The most obvious and most often cited reason why the Duke chose the Golden Fleece as the emblem of the Order was that the Flanders wool trade was of particular importance in that country. Many individuals and towns associated with the wool trade bear heraldic shields with a fleece upon them. This occurs in many European countries, not only in Flanders, although this development generally followed the foundation of the Order of the Golden Fleece, rather than preceding it. Another possible reason is that the 15th century saw an increase in the interest in classical literature and Greek myths; and it has been surmised that the legend of Jason and the Argonauts and their search for the Golden Fleece may have inspired the Duke to use that legendary fleece as the Order's emblem. It is very likely that both factors played a part in the Duke's decision.

   And yet I wonder whether there was another reason for choosing this emblem, for the Ram seems to have had a mystical significance in Flanders. In 1188, Giraldus Cambrensis (or Gerald of Wales) travelled to the area known as the Rhos in West Wales in the company of Baldwin, Archbishop of Canterbury. In his record of the journey, Gerald told of how the area was settled by Flemings, who were brought to the country by King Henry I of England to colonise the district. Gerald was impressed by their hardihood and their skill in the wool trade. He went on to say:

   "A strange habit of these Flemings is that they boil the right shoulder-blades of rams, but not roast them, strip off all the meat and, by examining them, foretell the future and reveal the secret of events long past. Using these shoulder-blades, they have the extraordinary power of being able to divine what is happening far away at this very moment. By looking carefully at the little indents and protuberances, they prophesy with complete confidence periods of peace and outbreaks of war, murders and conflagrations, the infidelities of married people and the welfare of the reigning king, especially his life and death."

   Gerald makes it clear that this belief was not restricted to the Fleming population of Wales, but was also held in Flanders itself, the belief in the magical powers of rams' shoulder-blades coming with them from their old country. He narrates a number of stories of events, both in Wales and in Flanders, in which people were able to discover what had happened in the past and what was to happen in the future. Nor would a shoulder-blade from any animal do; it had to be a ram. Gerald gives the following account:

   "The shoulder-blade of a goat was brought to a certain person instead of that of a ram, for when they are cleaned they are very similar. He felt all the indents in it and all the marks. 'Unhappy herd', he cried, 'which never multiplied! Unhappy he who owned it, for he never had more than three or four in his herd!'"
 
   In another story, a woman who had committed adultery was given a ram's shoulder-blade by her husband. The ram was one from the man's own herd and his wife, being adept at the art of divining the hidden meanings of the bone, laughed and appeared much amused. When her husband asked her what was wrong, she told him that the man who had owned the ram had a wife who had been unfaithful to him, thus admitting her own guilt very effectively.
   
   But far more dramatic matters could be discerned from rams' shoulder-blades. Gerald tells that:
"Many people foretold from the shoulder-blades the devastation of their homeland which was to follow the death of Henry I, and this a year and a half or more before it happened. They sold everything they possessed, both portable property and land, and abandoned their homes and so by their prescience escaped disaster."

   The homeland that was to be devastated was not Flanders, but the Flemings' new one in Wales, for the Welsh, upon the death of King Henry, rose up in revolt and attacked the Flemish colonists who, together with the Normans and the English settlers, were greatly resented by the native Welsh.

   Could it be that Philip the Good was influenced by the perceived mystical nature of a ram's shoulder-blade? The fleece on the insignia of the Order of the Golden Fleece is definitely that of a horned ram, not a sheep. Also, the Greek myth makes it clear that the Golden Fleece sought by Jason and the Argonauts was that of a ram. It is quite possible that the Flemish belief in the potency of a ram's bone derived ultimately from the Golden Fleece in the Greek legend.

   Gerald of Wales reported that the shoulder-blade of a ram could foretell matters concerning the welfare of the king, "especially his life and death". In Greek mythology the Golden Fleece subsequently sought by Jason and his friends belonged to a divine ram supplied by Hermes and upon which Phrixus rode in order to avoid being killed. Is there here a connection with the belief that a ram's bone could prophesy matters of life and death?

   It seems to me very likely that the Duke of Burgundy, who was also Count of Flanders, was aware of the mystical significance that the Flemings attached to the ram. This may well have played a part in his decision to adopt it as the emblem of his new Order. At the very least, it seems quite possible. It would be interesting to see whether historians are able to find further evidence in support of this idea.

Dr Zakaria Erzin�lioglu
 
 

[Baja Bush Pilot]

  In heraldry a fleece is a whole, stuffed ram's fleece, complete with head and feet, suspended by a band around its middle.

Brooks Brothers logo comes to mind...

[Fleamistress]

Bart:  Good job!

Barry:  You kill me.

[Bart]

Enlarged Brooks Brothers logo, from their site

   "In 1818, Henry Sands Brooks founded Brooks Brothers, the first ready-to-wear fashion emporium in America. Since then, we are proud to have become an institution that has shaped the American style of dress through fashion innovation, fine quality, personal service, and exceptional value in our products."

   And I thought Monty Python's Flying Circus was fairly original... it appears now that they got some of their ideas from heraldry! Ledgant, maybe you're related to Brooks Brothers! 

Bart

[Fleamistress]

Hey Ledgant!  I don't know Brooks Bros. for "fashion innovation" but I'm still curious:  You married?

(Barry, you might shop there, but...)

Hee!

[Ledgant]

The flemish foretelling by boiling the right shoulder blades of rams is really fascinating,i'm sure there is a much deeper pagan symbolism behind it - i'm going to have a look into it.I was aware of the flemish weavers coming to wales and thought that possibly the crest meant they were connected to flemish weavers to kent?
[I am part welsh through a different line].The brooks brothers sure looks like the description of the crest :-).
I think I read the golden fleece comes from being able to collect gold flecks in a river by using the fleece of a sheep or something.This g.grandfather [x4] did write a few books and says in one that he is a "free baron" of Dover but im not sure what that means.



I think the title is meant as godwin rather than godwyn,but the copy says godwyn,there is an earl godwin of wessex I saw on wiki - which is really odd because I dreamt once of this old man talking to me at a bus stop? all he said was "the whole area next to kent use to be called wessex" and that was it and the dream ended,I had never heard of the term "wessex". Weird.

[scribe]

Ledgant
The name godwyn is well known in Kent.

Earl Godwin

Godwin, the son of Wulfnoth, was a large landowner in England. Although an Anglo-Saxon, Godwin decided to give his support to the Dane, Cunate the Great, when he became king of England in 1016.

In 1017 Cunate divided his kingdom into four earldoms - Northumbria, East Anglia, Mercia and Wessex. Whereas he chose Danes as earls of Northumbria and East Anglia, he appointed Godwin as the Earl of Wessex.

In 1019 Godwin accompanied Cnut on a visit to Denmark. Cnut was impressed with Godwin and arranged for him to marry Gytha, the sister of Earl Ulf, the most powerful of all the Danish earls. The couple had several children including Swegen, Edith, Harold, Tostig and Gyrth.

By the time Edward the Confessor became king in 1042, Earl Godwin was the most powerful Anglo-Saxon in England. To maintain Godwin's loyalty Edward married his daughter, Edith. Godwin hoped that his daughter would have a son but Edward had taken a vow of celibacy and it soon became clear that the couple would not produce an heir to the throne.

Godwin's sons also became powerful figures in England. Swegen was earl of Hereford, Gloucester and Oxford whereas Harold held the earldom of East Anglia. A nephew, Beorn, was earl of Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire.

In 1044 Edward brought Robert, abbott of Jumieges, to London. Soon after his arrival, Robert of Jumieges began making accusations against Godwin, including the claim that he had murdered Elfred, the king's brother. Godwin's power was also undermined by the behaviour of his son, Swegen, who was outlawed in 1046 for seducing the abbess of Leominister.

Robert of Jumieges became Archbishop of Canterbury in 1050. He now tried to use his new position to destroy Godwin's influence with Edward the Confessor.

In 1051 a group of Normans became involved in a brawl at Dover and several men were killed. Edward the Confessor ordered Godwin, as earl of Wessex, to punish the people living in the town for this attack on his Norman friends. Godwin refused and instead raised an army against the king. Godwin marched on Gloucester but a war was averted when it was agreed that the Witan would sort out the dispute.

The earls of Mercia and Northumbria remained loyal to the king and the Witan eventually declared that Godwin and his sons had five days to leave England. Godwin and his sons, Harold, Tostig and Gyrth joined Swegen in Flanders.

Over the next year Edward the Confessor increased the number of Norman advisers in England. This upset the Anglo-Saxons and when Godwin and a large army commandeered by his sons, Harold and Tostig, landed in the south of England in 1052, Edward was unable to raise significant forces to stop the invasion. Most of the men in Kent, Surrey and Sussex joined the rebellion.

Godwin's large fleet moved round the coast and recruited men in Hastings, Hythe, Dover and Sandwich. He then sailed up the Thames and soon gained the support of Londoners. Godwin now forced Edward to send his Norman advisers home. Godwin was also given back his family estates and was now the most powerful man in England.

Godwin died at Winchester on 14th April, 1053 and his place as the leading Anglo-Saxon in England was taken by his son Harold.

The history of the town and port of Dover and of Dover castle

The Godwin Sands


The 1954 'Goodwin Light Ship' Tragedy During 80 mph Winds

[Fleamistress]

I was getting to the question of "Goodwin" as possibly evolving out of Godwyn.  Ledgant and my son could be related!

Very interesting geneaological finds!

[Ledgant]

My great great uncle's middle name was Canute which is similar to Cunate but he was not related to this line as far as I know,being my paternal grandfather's line.

I'm a bit more curious at what the fleece in suspentia symbolises and who this infamous gallant hampton was.

Thanks everyone for your help!

[Fleamistress]

Gee, I thought we did a pretty good job on the "fleece" question.  You don't?



As far as Gallant Hampton--what have you been able to rule out or find out so far?

Cheers!