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History's Hinge - 'Ain Jalut

[Tayopa]

Gallum I owe you the translation of  the Molina document.  Pease send it to me again--I cross my fingers and spit beween them that I will faithfully translate it this time .

Tropical Tramp

[Gollum]

Tayopa,

I'll get that out to you today.

Admin,

My position is not illogical in the least. In this case, the information runs in a backwards direction, but not illogical. If there were available written documentation of the mines' existence, someone would have undoubtedly funded whatever money would have been necessary to unearth the mine and associated cache, a long time ago. The Purisima Concepcion and the Opata, were first found in the late 1930s. The Opata was said to be worked out. The Purisima Concepcion contained a large amount of gold and silver bullion.

It's not that there is NO evidence. As posted, two of the three named mines were found (Purisima Concepcion, and the Opata). Both gold and silver ingots were recovered. Photographic evidence exists. One of the finders is still alive. Finding him is a bit of a bother. I didn't even know his name until a few weeks ago.

It looks like anyone finding Jesuit caches/mines, will have to backdoor their way in (find the caches/mines first, then find the evidence of their finds).

And Doc's assertion is correct. I didn't read it as there being a conspiracy by the National Park Service to hide any evidence of the mines, but a concerted effort to keep every Tom, Dick, and Harry from running off into the National Forest, and digging it up! That's an easy assumption to make. The idea that they are trying to hide evidence of the mines makes no sense. If that were the case, they would have cut off everybody's treasure trove digging permits, and jerked their claims. That never happened. No, I think they're just trying to preserve the Coronado National Forest.

Best,

Mike

[Tayopa]

Sheesh gollum referring to your post   "reply #2",   are you a perfectionist and time clock beater?  Remember, I am in old Mexico and have adopted the customs, particularily of the 1800's  -    manana mi amigo, " isn' t the Lord wonderful? he gives us the night to sleep in, and the day to rest"..

Besides you sent it too large, I can only see 1/2 of it?

Tropical Tramp

[Solomon]

manana mi amigo, " isn' t the Lord wonderful? he gives us the night to sleep in, and the day to rest"

I think you confuse ma?ana for siesta 

Solomon

[Tayopa]

Hehehe solomn   they are two separate  things in the post.    However under certain circumstances and conditions they can become interchangeable.   besides it has been finished.

Tropical Tramp

[Gollum]

And besides Solomon, don't you know that a Siesta is the time you sleep during the day, to take a break from all that resting?

Best,

Mike

[Tayopa]

HI Gollum, I did find a few discrepancies in the English translation of the Molina Document, which, if followed, would guarantee that you would never find it. Plus it is a bit careless of   "intent"   in translation  and lacks proper punctuation.  Otherwise, it is  good

Tropical Tramp

[Tayopa]

HIO Golly:  I found this on one of my floppies, apparently  I forgot to send it before my computer crashed.  It is self explanatory.

Tropical Tramp

[Tayopa]

Find the mines yet Gollum,   Dan?         Do you want me to  go dig them up for you?

Tropical Tramp

[Gollum]

Who's Dan? I haven't left SoCal in forever yet.

Best,

Mike

[Tayopa]

sheesh picky picky  Gollum,     Dan = Duh = typo    f or  which I am particularly infamous,  so Shaddup  and go get the  GOLD   and fame.   Since you cannot do it secretly, nor should you,    we expect a complete  Archaeological report.  hehehehe

Tropical Tramp

[Gollum]

Wait, what was the typo? Were you saying, "Find the mines yet Gollum,   Man?" I don't mind the typo, I just thought you were calling me Dan (you did capitalize the "D").

I have been talking to one of the Archaeologists for the Coronado National Forest (referred by Scott Wood) about the Tumacacori/Camp Loco area. See, I already have the whole story from some people who have a commercial interest in the area. Now I want to get the official word from some of the officials. They all seem nice enough. Though, one of the things he said to me was that he thought the tailings pile looked more modern. He seemed to get a little flustered when I asked him where the modern mine was that could have left a 150,000 cubic foot tailings pile. There is no (and was never) claim for such a huge underground complex located (filed) in that area. Claims locations there go back to the mid 1800s. How "MODERN" could it be?

Best,

Mike

[Gollum]

Ok Solomon and Bart,

Here is what the Chief Archaeologist for the Tonto National Forest says would happen to the remains cited in your poser:

"Hey Mike,
 
It is rather astonishing, actually. In his scenario, the dead Spaniard
would end up in a museum or repository, the Indian's remains would be
repatriated to an affiliated Tribe, and the Colonial, after a stint in the
lab, could end up either in the museum or, if there were any remaining
family connections about, be reburied in a local cemetery. I'm just glad
that we don't often get sites like that. But if you think that's bad, there
was a NAGPRA case a few years ago involving a mixed Indian and Hispanic
cemetery that was excavated. Too old for any records to allow specific
identifications (and too much genetic crossover in the population for there
to be clear-cut physical differences (couldn't do DNA), that the
adjudicated settlement was to arbitrarily divide the remains up according
the the relative percentage of each group in the known historic population
so that the "Indians" would be repatriated to the Reservation and the
"Hispanics" would be reburied in a modern Hispanic Catholic cemetery. How
arbitrary was it? Until enough people complained, the original sorting
would have separated a mother and daughter buried together....
 
NAGPRA has brought a lot of benefit to archaeology in this country, but
it's not without its problems....
 
Cheers,
Scott"

How's that for American equity under the law?


Best,

Mike

[Solomon]

Mike,

Many thanks for that. What a mix up, quite literally. I can see the problem, but the solution seems to me to demonstrate that trying to satisfy everyone is, in this case, impossible.

Cheers!
Solomon

[Tayopa]

Geeze, can you magine what a problem it would be to separate gollum into the correct caagory?  he is probably as bad as I am ,  and I am from Irish aristocracy . (isn't every Irishman ? heheheh)  O'Kane  Derry county.