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[Bart]

I think Wilson and Blackett would disagree with much of this posted below, I even have problems with it myself.  There are claims that Cambridge and Oxford scholors have/ are conspiring to elliminate/ obfuscate, and deny and destroy the Welsh history and language. Parliament is said to have an absolute ban on speaking the Welsh tongue in chambers, and one MP was censured? for quoting some Chaucer recently. Historically, the Welsh language was forbidden to be used in schools there for decades, with some strong punishment for students who did use it. Yet it has obviously survived that and is apparently still going strong. It seems from my reading over the years that there are two basic factions within Bitain proper, those of Anglo-Saxons descent vs Welsh. - Bart

Coelbren Ar Beirdd

by Serenwen


The authenticity of the Coelbren is a subject that has been the cause of much controversy. This is due to the origins of the system having no certain historical point at which they can be said to have been created. Instead their origins are lost in the mists of the antiquarian movement peopled by such characters as the famous, and for some infamous, Iolo Morgannwg. One Welsh magical tradition that collectively refer to themselves as the Gwyddon state that they can prove a lineage that is unbroken for the past eighteen generations. The problem with this is that the group is a closed hereditary group and as such will not produce any documentation that would corroborate this and so we cannot definitely say that this claim is true. However this does not mean that the claim is false, it is rather that as with so many aspects of modern Paganism generally and Druidry specifically these things must be taken upon faith and the individual must decide. However, the name Gwyddon provides some interesting food for thought. In old Welsh it is a term applied to a Witch, but it is also the title for the Arch Druid, in some older Druid literature, and a literal translation interprets it as 'Wood Learning'. The term Coelbren also has several possible translations. In Welsh it is usually translated as 'Wood Memorials', and it is most frequently found in the phrase 'Y Coelbren Ar Beirdd' meaning 'The Wood Memorials of the Bards'. It seems likely that at some point in the past, whether the more recent past of the Druid revival of the eighteenth century or quite possibly before, it was an alphabet utilised by the Bards in much the same way as the Ogham alphabet. One of the most detailed descriptions of the origins of the Coelbren (there are many different versions) and the most easily available in modern literature appears in The Ancient Bards of Britain by D. Delta Evans (1906 Educational Publishing Company). It is quite lengthy and is in part reproduced below:

"Tradition has it that in the far, far remote past, when no-one and nothing existed,, Great Spirit articulated the Divine Name: and simultaneously with the word all creation sprang into being, repeating three times the Divine Name in a subdued but distinctly melodious and sweet voice. Menu, the first person, heard that voice, and perceived the Three columns of Light. So Menu took three quicken-ashes and formed them into a picture of what was conceived to be the symbol of the Divine Name. And the symbol of that voice thrice sounded was ... /|\"

This symbol should be immediately recognised as the Awen that is an everyday part of Druidry. The practice of sounding the Awen three times in Druid rituals takes us straight back to the myth above, and this may indicate that the myth and the practice of sounding the Awen are at least as old as each other. As with many aspects of modern Druid practice it is uncertain exactly when these practices began but it would suggest that the Coelbren are at least as old as the Druid revival of the eighteenth century - making the Coelbren at least two or three hundred centuries old. The commentary by Delta Evans continues: "/|\ is sometimes referred to in the Triads as the Three columns of Light and the Three Columns of Truth as 'Nothing can be known of the Truth save through the Light which is shed upon it'".

According to oral history the early pioneers of the Coelbren discovered that /|\ was capable of expansion into other forms through being broken down into its component parts, and reformed in different ways. How this was accomplished has unfortunately been lost but this does not mean that it cannot be refound through careful meditation and study. After all the Awen is inspiration and as the first symbol within the Coelbren this would seem to be a fitting start to any such project. One of these early pioneers, Einigan, was able to evolve the first symbol into a further ten characters representing the letters A P C E T I L R O and S (see chart). These were kept secret until the reign of Beli the Great when another eight characters were added, these being M N B Ff G D U and Dd.Over time another five were added sporadically (W F Ch Ll and H) and it was in this state when the Roman invasion began being mistaken by Julius Caesar for Greek. It fell into disuse thereafter due to the growing importance of Latin, especially after the later Roman conquest. However it experienced a renaissance around the second or third century A.D. and was improved until it numbered forty-four, in which state it remained until the Middle Ages.

Whether or not this mythological history is correct or not is uncertain. Due to no written records surviving from these times it is impossible to say what system of writing was used. However, it does tally in part with modern views of the Coelbren. These views fall into three parts. It is possible that the Druids who had access to 'Greek Letters' altered them over time, or that Nennius created them in response to a jibe made by a Saxon over the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon Runes when compared to Ogham. The most favoured explanation is that our old friend Iolo Morgannwg formed them in his search and consequent 'channelling' of ancient Bardic wisdom. Whatever may be the case the argument that Caesar overlooked the Coelbren thinking that the Druids were using the Greek alphabet is enigmatic and persuasive. Enigmatic as it cannot be proved archaeologically, and yet persuasive due to a re-examination of classical sources. One idea put forward by John Daniel in The Philosophy of Ancient Britain is that the Druidic doctrine was written down as the Romans carried out its decimation of the Druids. This may well have some validity. Caesar comments that "Generally, in other cases (apart from passing on religious doctrine), and in their public and private accounts, they use Greek letters" (De Bello Gallica). However, "From a number of sources it may be gathered, that although there was a likeness between the letters used by continental Druids, and those of the Greek, yet they were certainly not identical" (Daniel). Other more tenuous links support this idea. Plato refers to the Hyperborean alphabet and the Celtae were the Hyperboreans to the Greeks. And Strabo comments on the Turditani, "These are the wisest amongst the Iberians. They have letters, and written histories of ancient transactions, and poems, and laws in verse, as they assert, six thousand years old". According to Xenophon those letter that were supposed to have been brought out of Phoenicia into Greece resembled Gaulish rather than Phoenician characters. This may mean that the Coelbren may be older than the Greek alphabet, though it must be stated that this is pure conjecture. It is more likely that they share a common origin, especially when other ancient European alphabets like Etruscan and the Runes are considered.

One of the problems is the total lack of written evidence within archaeology. The Ogham script was seen as associated with the older races within the Irish mythological cycles and as such the many Ogham monuments do not fit into the picture of ancient Celtic literacy. However, it may be that such books existed but have been destroyed and lost over the past two thousand years. St. Patrick is reputed to have systematically destroyed Druidic literature, including works with such titles as 'The Stones of Gwyddon' (See Lewis Spence The Magic Arts in Celtic Britain). No one can say what may have been contained within these resources, but it is certainly unfortunate that the early Christian Church carried out such activities.

The idea that Nennius created the Coelbren in response to the criticisms of the Saxons in the eighth century also holds a certain credibility. In the Bodlean library in Oxford there is a manuscript that confirms this tale, dated A.D. 817. This would also correspond to the idea that the Druids did not have their own system of writing in antiquity, which is the standard archaeological view. It also has clarity as the Coelbren do look similar to the Runes, which is usually one of the main criticisms aimed at them. But if Nennius used the idea of the Runes to create a Celtic equivalent, a direct combination of the method of writing Runes as opposed to the Ogham and the associations which the Ogham are traditionally associated with, it would seem likely that they would share similarities. Against this though is the simple fact that there are only so many ways of making up letters. Either a series of straight lines must be used, especially when working with the practicalities of marking wood or stone, or curved lines that are really only practical with paper and ink technology. Thus there would have to be some aesthetic similarities between the two alphabets. Even if this is the origin of the Coelbren it still points to the fact that the Coelbren have been in existence since the eighth century.

The last of the three starting points rests upon the creative or channelling genius of Iolo Morgannwg. It may well be that it was he who devised the system to fill the gap in Celtic literacy that he felt existed but had been lost. This is usually the interpretation favoured by those who think that the Coelbren are contrived and to explain the lack of any physical evidence that they existed before this point. Even so, this does not alter the fact that since Iolo's time the system has been in more or less continuous use and has now developed a considerable heritage in the process.

The whole point to examining the history of the Coelbren is quite simple. It gives a surety of authenticity. It is not a question of age, but usage. How old the Coelbren are makes no difference to the efficacy of the system, all it can do is settle the mind so that it can focus upon the Coelbren themselves. Enough of history. Each Coelbren glyph has several associations. As well as a pictorial element each has a specific sound, as well as a tree that it shares with the Ogham in some cases. Therefore each glyph can be used for either vocal or visual magical techniques, and act as mnemonics for a large amount of natural lore. It also means that they may be used for divination, and various techniques are discussed later. One of the problems that is encountered today when using the Coelbren is that not all retain associations. Out of the forty-four that are in existence only sixteen have associations that can be traced back to the turn of the eighteenth century (see Edward Davies Celtic Researches). However, some people have reasoned that the associations of the different Coelbren glyphs should be comparable to those connected to the Ogham script by virtue of the similarity in the systems. For many, Ogham is an earlier system that was the forerunner of the Coelbren and as such the only difference between the two is the language in which they have been preserved. This may be the case though it would seem that there are at least two distinct versions of the Coelbren, both being different to Ogham, and only one of which is immediately available to anyone wishing to use the system. For this reason both sets that are available, one loosely connected to Ogham and the other more traditional Coelbren system, are reproduced and it is up to the individual which they choose. In effect this adds to the flexibility of the Ogham system in providing a more easily utilised method for writing, and still allows people to connect to the traditional form of the Coelbren if they so wish.

http://www.druidry.org/obod/lore/coelbren/coelbren.html

[Solomon]

I think Wilson and Blackett would disagree with much of this posted below, I even have problems with it myself.  There are claims that Cambridge and Oxford scholors have/ are conspiring to elliminate/ obfuscate, and deny and destroy the Welsh history and language. Parliament is said to have an absolute ban on speaking the Welsh tongue in chambers, and one MP was censured? for quoting some Chaucer recently. Historically, the Welsh language was forbidden to be used in schools there for decades, with some strong punishment for students who did use it. Yet it has obviously survived that and is apparently still going strong. It seems from my reading over the years that there are two basic factions within Bitain proper, those of Anglo-Saxons descent vs Welsh. - Bart

An interesting, deep topic, Bart.

Britain, in her days of empire, was against the use of Welsh, probably thinking that learning Welsh in school would distract from other subjects and so handicap the pupil. Today, not only is that language accepted, but attempts are made to resurrect its related tongue, in Cornwall. Everyone loves ethnicity these days. And everyone complans at poor standards in education 

As a student of history, I try to put the relationships between the Anglo Saxons and other peoples of the British Isles into some sort of context. For example, what happened to the Beaker People, who built the henges? Did the invading Celts exterminate them, in a campaign of ethnic cleansing? It looks like it.

What happened to the natives of Pictland? The first Scottish king, MacAlpine, murdered all of seven royal Pictish families. Did he largely exterminate the Picts? Probably.

The Irish raided, invaded and occupied as much of mainland Britain as they could. That's how they got Pictland and created Scotland. The Irish kidnapped from Britain the young man who would later become St. Patrick of Ireland, and used him as a slave.

Most of us live together quite happily and have done so for a very long time. Not to say, though, that there is not friction somewhere, with some people. The Protestant-Catholic bigotry is still rife in Scotland, as the casualty departments of hospitals attest, especially of a Saturday evening.

The modern interest in druids and Stonehenge I find ironic, especially as many people gather at the henge each mid-summer, dressed as druids. This is because the henge was at least as concerned with the moon as with the sun and the druids had even less of an idea of what the henge was for than we do, today. To the druids, the henge was a complete mystery. At least we now have archaeology, which allows us to know and understand a little of its purpose.

The last of the three starting points rests upon the creative or channelling genius of Iolo Morgannwg.

Is this channelling of the paranormal? Is this how we should study history?

Sol

[Diving Doc]

Chanelling is an understanding of the spiritual core of a race of people by one who has gone before among them. 

Moneypenny knows somthing of this.

However, I don't believe it is how one should study History.

Doc

[moneypenny]

Well, I'm not going to touch the 'channeling' question with a ten foot pole. 
 I was most interested in this thread when it started and was concerned with Arthurian legend.  I have come across an article in a past issue of "The Heroic Age" that contains much of what Bart has detailed, plus more. Best of all, it contains a really nice bibliography at the end.  There are so many theories that I wonder if it will ever be put to rest. 
http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/7/forum.html

moneypenny

[Bart]

Having trouble posting, keep getting error on page when I hit post. Excellent bio on Wilson at the link below, if someone could post it here, I'm thinking it will make Moneypenny's day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Wilson_(historian)

[Bart]

URGENT PRESS RELEASE, JULY 20TH 2006

"NEW RESEARCH AMATEURISH AND FLAWED,"
SAYS LEADING BRITISH HISTORIAN.


"Ancient British history, the history of the Khumric people, is under attack," says Alan Wilson, Britain's foremost expert on these matters.

"A new genetic study by a team based at University College, London, under Dr. Mark Thomas, is amateurish and fatally flawed because it ignores the best historical evidence", Wilson adds. Thomas claims that invading Anglo-Saxons gained a position of power within the British Isles through a "system of apartheid", supposedly explaining how, over a period of 300 years, the ancient British, numbering at least six million (the number given in Salway's Roman Britain, 1981), were supplanted by Anglo-Saxons, numbering in the tens of thousands.

"But this is nonsense," says Wilson, co-author of seven books on ancient British history and whose best-selling paperback The Holy Kingdom caused uproar when published in 1997. "Massive historical evidence points to much of Britain being devastated by a cometary strike in the mid 6th Century. Astronomers at Cardiff University agree with us, as do astrophysicists including Dr. Victor Klube of Oxford University and dendrochronologists led by Dr. Michael Baillie of Belfast. All agree that a comet hit Britain and yet this research, and that of other scientists, has been completely ignored by Dr. Thomas."

REAL HISTORY

The destruction caused by the comet, is, Wilson says, the simplest, best, most appropriate and only factual explanation for the growth of Anglo-Saxon power from the 7th Century onwards. Subsequent Anglo Saxon invasions could not have succeeded without this disaster. "We are in trouble if academics can ignore the best historical evidence we have," Wilson continued. "Clearly, as explained in Welsh historical records of huge integrity, the comet struck causing massive devestation and the main victims were the Khumric people."

REAL EVIDENCE

One ancient Khumric record, the Brut Tyssilio, speaks of, "a star of great magnitude and brilliance with a single beam shining from it. At the end of this beam was a ball of fire, spread out in the shape of a dragon..."

Another, the Life of St. Teilo (who lived mid sixth Century), states, "St. Teilo received the pastoral care of the church of Llandaff to which he had been consecrated....but could not long remain, however, on account of the pestilence which nearly destroyed the whole nation....it was called the Yellow Pestilence because it occasioned all persons who were seized by it to be yellow without blood and it appeared to men as a watery column of cloud having one end trailing along the ground and the other above, proceeding in the air and passing through the entire country like a shower going through the bottom of the vallies."

MANY SOURCES

These are but two examples of a multiplicity of historical sources pointing in the same direction but which have been ignored by Dr. Mark Thomas. "The Anglo-Saxon invasion would have been impossible without the cometary strike," argues Wilson, "and you cannot ignore 99% of the historical evidence and make effective progress, which is why genetic studies such as this much-publicised recent effort are so flawed."

REAL ANSWERS

"If we want the answers to important historical questions that are the basis for the origins of the Welsh Dragon, and the real heritage and culture of the Khumric and British people, then we need look no further than the ancient records," says Wilson.

"Dr. Thomas and his team at University College London have replaced historical fact with modern-day fiction and they clearly have not done their homework."

ENDS

For more please visit, realhistory.libsyn.com or realhistoryradio.blogspot.com

In support of the Ancient British Historical Association, Chairperson, Alan Wilson

E-mail,

http://realhistorymedia.blogspot.com/

[Bart]

Real History Radio
The only show bringing you Real ancient British, European and Middle Eastern history based upon the best and most illustrious records available; the Khumric "Welsh". Christianity in Britain circa 37AD, King Arthur, the ancient British Kings, the Brutus Dynasty, the Khumry, Egypt and more!

http://www.podcastpickle.com/casts/15690/

[Bart]

Lots of review on Wilson's new book, The Holy Kingdon, mostly rave.

[Bart]

A strong opinion, but are his facts right for the Copper Scroll?

"John Laprise Ph.D., Ontario, Canada

My ancestry consists of Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Norman ancestry. My Grandfather Arthur Houle who was of Welsh/Breton ancestry insisted that there was a King Arthur who did great things in history. Their oral tradition maintained, that there was always a boy named Arthur in every generation for his commemoration. We know that Magus Maximus existed and that his son Arthur was the eldest. I was however surprised, that there had been two Arthurs in early British history. I would challenge the pseudo-researchers found in our colleges and universities, who would criticize the thirty years of scholarly research of Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett, to learn the written Coelbren language of the Khumry first, then confirm the research and documentation brought forward. Oh yes I forgot, Coelbren was determined to be a forged language of the early 1800's by these pseudo-academics. That must be why the Etruscan and even the so-called Copper Scrolls of the famed Dead Sea Scrolls read perfectly in the ancient Coelbren of the Khumry. The Copper Scroll was supposedly written in an unknown language according to the academe/know it alls. I guess in time history will have to be rewritten, and all these tomes of gobbledeegook written over the centuries by the farmers of government grants will have to be discarded. "

[Solomon]

No, Bart, he is not.
The Copper Scroll is in Hebrew.
The scrolls were discovered in 1947, hardly time for centuries of scholarly work.

Sol

[Bart]

That is just what I have been hearing for a few years now, that the Coelbren is Hebrew, but it is all from this source, Wilson. How does one go about verifying Wilson on this particular claim? Where would you start? I keep asking myself, what if Wilson is right about this claim?

I spent ten years searching for the truth regarding a fantastic archaeological claim here in the US. The whole thing, books, inscribed rocks, artifacts, documentation, turned out to be a fraud. It was quite an odyssey.

[Solomon]

That is just what I have been hearing for a few years now, that the Coelbren is Hebrew, but it is all from this source, Wilson. How does one go about verifying Wilson on this particular claim? Where would you start? I keep asking myself, what if Wilson is right about this claim?

I spent ten years searching for the truth regarding a fantastic archaeological claim here in the US. The whole thing, books, inscribed rocks, artifacts, documentation, turned out to be a fraud. It was quite an odyssey.

Bart,
That Coelbren is supposed to be Hebrew is not quite what was claimed in the above post:
the...Copper Scolls...read perfectly in the ancient Coelbren
As I said, that scroll is in Hebrew, not Coelbren. If the scroll can be read perfectly as Coelbren, then Coelbren is Hebrew, not merely similar to it. The terms Hebrew and Coelbren would become interchangeable: in fact, one would not need to use the term Coelbren at all, as Hebrew is already well-known, well-established and understood.

The Copper Scroll was supposedly written in an unknown language according to the academe/know it alls
This statement is therefore patently untrue.

I'm not quite sure what to say regarding those ten years. I have just spent two years studying the claimed archaeology of a famous site in North America and it turned out to be the result of at least two frauds. The abuse I received in thanks was predictable, maybe, as this sort of thing can easily become a cult and heretics are always persecuted, but at least after two years, it was over. Ten years? That would upset me.

Over the last 35 years or more, I have studied both Qumran and the scrolls. After a decade or so, I decided that to begin to understand the arguments, I would have to take it seriously. My method was to obtain (copies of ) the source materials and check every single element of each argument. That took about two years. The result is that I can now hold an informed point of view of my own.

Going to the source is always the best method. Depending on the interpretations of others is always risky at best and can never match the validity of the original sources. Once you have studied the source material with an educated mind, then your opinion can stand up to those of the experts, for you can become an expert in your own right.

We are fortunate that in academia today, most are open with their material. I have never had an academic refuse my request for data and I send out requests maybe once or twice a week. The case of the horse bones may confirm that to you.

Sol

[Solomon]

"But this is nonsense," says Wilson, co-author of seven books on ancient British history and whose best-selling paperback The Holy Kingdom caused uproar when published in 1997. "Massive historical evidence points to much of Britain being devastated by a cometary strike in the mid 6th Century. Astronomers at Cardiff University agree with us, as do astrophysicists including Dr. Victor Klube of Oxford University and dendrochronologists led by Dr. Michael Baillie of Belfast. All agree that a comet hit Britain and yet this research, and that of other scientists, has been completely ignored by Dr. Thomas."

I would not argue against Wilson, in his claim for a catastrophic event having caused societal changes in the 6th century and in particular, for the collapse of an agrarian Celtic Britain in favour of more mobile Anglo Saxons. As he says, there is now a mass of supporting evidence for this. There is another hypothesis for the cause.

SEMP Biot #214: Did a Krakatoa Eruption in 535 A.D. Help Precipitate the Decline of Antiquity and the Spread of Islam?
May 16, 2005
http://www.semp.us/biots/biot_214.html
David Keys*, in a 1999 British television documentary** based on his book ?Catastrophe,?*** suggested that an eruption of Krakatoa in 535 A.D. was the primary cause of a global climatic catastrophe that caused widespread famine, pestilence, and extinction of many civilizations around the globe. Keys reasons that a huge volcanic eruption, somewhere near the equator sent volcanic emissions high into the stratosphere where air currents distributed them around the globe, creating a veil through which sunlight could not penetrate. As a result, the earth sustained flooding and cooling over the next century, which caused the failure of crops. People and animals scattered and either starved to death or died from a pandemic that swept the civilized world in the sixth century (or both).

KRAKATAU
http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/ECNews/SuperVolc/Krakatau/Krakatau1.htm
The Super-Explosive Volcano?s Potential For Darkening The Sun,
Producing Sudden Global Climate Changes,
And Causing Catastrophes
A Syrian bishop, John of Ephesis, wrote of certain extraordinary events that occurred in 535-536 A. D., as follows:

"There was a sign from the Sun, the likes of which had never been seen or reported before. The Sun became dark, and its darkness lasted for about 18 months. Each day, it shown for about four hours and still this light was only a feeble shadow. Everyone declared that the Sun would never recover its full light again."1

Thus the 535-555 interval began with significant solar darkening and a sudden, significant worldwide temperature decline. Floods and droughts, crop failures, plagues, and famines followed this global cooling of the climate. [Perhaps this is why Cayce readings 3620-1 and 257-254 say that "anyone who can should buy a farm, and buy it if you don't want to grow hungry in some days to come," for "the hardships for [America] have not yet begun, so far as the supply and demand for foods are concerned".]

Bubonic plague occurred due to the cooler temperatures. This plague massively reduced populations. Traces of sulfate ions, from sulfuric acid produced by the eruption, are found in ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica, ruling out asteroid or comet impacts as the source of the Sun-darkening dust. No wonder that the term Dark Ages is used to describe the physical and societal situations that developed beginning in 535 A.D.

Sol

[Sovereign]

Yep:
1. Go to the source.
2. Follow wherever the evidence leads.

Well done, all 

[Diving Doc]

Well it certainly is fun to speculate just how many times a coincidence, isn't it?

Doc